WOW! Super kicks!!! :D

[knite23]

Actually INT provides a direct increase to the DPS of PGL regardless of stance. AA damage is increased as is weaponskill damage. Furthermore, the Damage bonus on Blindside is further increased based on your INT value. It's quite easy to stack both via materia, as their slots are different. As for rings I personally go with INT.



Yup at the time of the discussion before we went over the details your points were well warranted. It's important that I point out though that DEX does not effect critical rate, potency or physical evasion at all. Those are myths. Those stats are handled entirely through gear, traits and ability bonuses.

like you said via materia....but if you stack str your stat increase will always be higher than what your int can be aka if you were to stack strength u would increase your stats more than you could trying to stack int with just materia.... a balance is need in all stats im not saying you should only stack strength but the reasoning of why it is being done is pretty evident

[knite23]

Immersion means jack-shit if you don't DEFINE it.

MP is a resource like any other. Monk uses MP as it's resource to manage his kicks

Managing resource is The way in giving depth to any playstyle. Whether it be HP, MP, TP, stamina gauge or recasts is up to devs to decide. why MP out of all resources somehow provokes such a reaction from Pugilists is mind-boggling. is it because Monk in XI had an auto-pilot-occasionally-recast-managing "playstyle"? You can't be that hopeless.

Mnk is by far the job I am looking most forward to and the one I believe has the highest potential of any job. Mnk classes have always been my favorite in games so I may be a bit biased, but I decided to look at all dps abilities they will gain closely, and looking at War and Drg I said "That's it?" War get abilities they are almost all for tanking, and drg get a jump and a fire breath. Mnk get to hit faster and kick! As for the kicking costing MP and being an addition ability, I don't mind it, because I don't feel getting kicking standard would have the same Impact. Okay think for a second, how can you replace the kick and still have the same affect? Oh let's add a third punch, hmm okay it's good dps but not that exciting. However with kicks, your Mnk, just aesthetically goes from just punching to adding a third hit, and it's a kick! This will have a serious visual impact and really make you really feel like you are bringing out the beast.

Now the game play side.

Why does it cost MP? There is NO other way to do it. Get a Mrd friend, go to Zahar'ak and do a little test. Have him ramp up Berserk while you just auto attack. Both with Ifrit weapons my Mrd friend hits maybe 300 damage a hit. I forget my exact but for now let's say I do around 130 a punch, it's somewhere around there. So 260 a round, 40 less then him. That makes sense though right? He has this huge axe, and Mrd are supposed to be massive hitters. However one thing people seem to forget is, Pgl/Mnk hits really fast. I hit almost twice as fast as him. Now, then go over to Grid or LL, and find yourself a crab. Hit it a few times, then pop Fire Fists and watch what happens. Your dmg almost doubles. So paint this little picture as Mnk.

You are a Mnk, hitting fast and doing strong damage. Then you use an ability that makes you hit even faster, with no cost to yourself. THEN you use an ability that adds ANOTHER hit per round. THEN you use an ability that vastly increases your damage on certain enemies.(keep in mind Mnk have three different elemental affinity stance)

Yes your MP will be draining fast. Probably faster then a Brd can recover it. Maybe a lot faster. But if it didn't drain MP, Mnk by far would be the most OP melee class.

I will enjoy my MP kick attacks. Because I will enjoy going from a standard AA dps, to a massive speed, kicking demon with the power to envoke the elements in all his attacks. Just the shock of switching between the two will really make you feel the power of the Mnk, and appreciate those kicks so much more.

i apologize for discrediting your opinion on pug/monk meleena. i also did read all of your post and all of the replies and imo these two quotes i posted is why i feel the whole argument on Mp usage for pug/monk is a waste of time. at the end of the day it is one of the more difficult classes to understand and manage but also secretively one of the best classes to play exactly the way it is now

[Razor]

like you said via materia....but if you stack str your stat increase will always be higher than what your int can be aka if you were to stack strength u would increase your stats more than you could trying to stack int with just materia.... a balance is need in all stats im not saying you should only stack strength but the reasoning of why it is being done is pretty evident

Although I was probably a tad too hot tempered at the time of writing my first post (No hard feelings Meleena~), Noctis mostly said anything I couldve about the stats. The whole DEX thing is mostly (if not all) myth, most likely founded by people trying to use XI-logic (myself included for awhile). VIT can also be scratched off because it seems as though PGL has been kicked out of the tanking arena as of 1.20 (evasion seems less potent and the 60s on Featherfoot is murder), and even when we do set up to tank, Evasion should be stacked over VIT. You are indeed right about the PIE, I actually prioritize PIE over STR when I can't squeeze any more INT onto something because those extra seconds of buff are very friendly in prolonged fights. So basically INT and PIE as if you were a THM.

Onto your comment(s), knife23. I happen to have been doing ALL my gc sealing on PGL as of 1.20 (probably about 10hrs worth now x.x) so I happen to have learned a few things about the class. I do not understand your comment about how "STR is easier to stack" than INT. Headgear can have INT but not STR, our weapon can have both, although hands can have STR melded but not INT, there are other options in that category that are likely much more potent (Attack stacks outrageously), Waist is mostly meh but theres an INT+2 belt, Legs can have anything you want (I prefer INT+/PIE+), and Body has the gorgeous Crit Attack Power+. Both STR and INT are both 1~20 stat materias so unless you want STR on the hands over Attack power for some reason, INT has more sensible melds.

Although STR is listed as the secondary attribute for PGL's damage, INT influences Blindside and gives some kind of magic potency (whether that actually effects us or not is questionable, but normal logic would assume that it should reduce the enemy's magic resistance of our attacks). On top of that, I'm fairly certain the #1 class stat gives a much more substantial bonus than the #2 stat. (As in, 1 point of INT is more powerful than 1 point of STR).

[knite23]

this is the gear pug has to choose from if you want to try and maximize your damaging stats count up what stat you can increase the most of. the most you will be able to get out of int on any meldable gear is 11 int with str 15 not including that the str gear has more favorable def and more favorable alternative stats like the atk/dex vs magic acc/fire resis which means no matter materia/rings you get if you go with str you will maximize your stats and before you suggest about what stat contributes more "#1 class stat gives a much more substantial bonus than the #2 stat. (As in, 1 point of INT is more powerful than 1 point of STR)" "fairly certain" isnt a real back bone for this statement and since you suggested that i have a question for you. Str converts to atk power at what ratio and atk power affects attacks /or abilities at what ratio? "INT influences Blindside and gives some kind of magic potency (whether that actually effects us or not is questionable, but normal logic would assume that it should reduce the enemy's magic resistance of our attacks)" this statment here is a big theory craft reducing an enemies resistance compared to int being a pure damge modifier is a long shot but a good theory my Ls has tested int vs str and continue to test it..... pure damage wise int has not won yet. i dont recommend only stacking any one stat but its pretty easy to fall for either or. lastly the biggest damage modifier isnt what stat you decide to stack but how you play your pug in any given fight

Head
int materia

Raptorskin Pot Helm
Accuracy : +5, Int : +2, Fire Resistance : +10

Electrum Monocle
Int : +4, Magic Accuracy : +5

Silver Tricorne
Str : +3, Dex : +3

body
crit atk materia

Felt Bliaud
Int : +5, Mnd : +5, Magic Accuracy : +5

Rainmaker's Tunic
Str : +6, Mnd : +6, Attack Power : +4

Hands
str/atk materia

Fingerless Raptorskin Gloves of Slaying
Magic Evasion : +10, Attack Power : +4

belt
Hp/Mp/enmity materia

Peisteskin Hunting Belt
HP : +8, Vit : +2, Int : +2

Legs
str-dex/str-vit/int-mind/int-pie materia

Felt Trousers
HP : +23, Vit : +6, Str : +4

feet
Hp materia

Cobalt-plated Caligae
Str : +2, Dex : +3, Evasion : +7

weapon
int/srt materia

no weapon has str or int on it that can be melded

[Meleena]

I think that its too early to assume that stats will always work like that (theyve changed in a year after all).
Accuracy might not be an issue now but it may be in the future, same goes for Dexterity etc.
I am not saying that you have to worry now about what will happen later, but I'd keep in mind that stats will be fixed later.

[Razor]

Most of your gear suggestions are spot on, except I run full Felt (Hat is a free INT+3 and PIE+5) and I don't remember the base stats of the pants other than additional PIE.

the most you will be able to get out of int on any meldable gear is 11 int with str 15 not including

You can meld as much of either stat as you want, I don't see where you are pulling those 11 and 15 numbers. My Felt Cavalier's Hat, for instance, is INT+40.

I also said "fairly certain" because I am basing that judgement off of rough observations and word of mouth as opposed to concrete parser results. While STR does attack Attack+, it is not a 1:1 ratio just like INT does not add a 1:1 MAB. However, given that INT is a primary stat, and not a secondary like STR is, it would stand to reason that in any conflict between INT and STR, the player should choose INT. Blindside is a very powerful ability and a staple of PGL's DD, because this ability is influenced by INT, that is only another reason to prioritize INT over STR. In XI, you didn't see THFs stacking STR for whatever marginal gains STR gave them, did you? They stacked DEX because that was the stat most important to their class , aside from some other lesser yet related reasons. Likewise, you don't see Archers running PIE builds, they run DEX since it is their primary attribute and most vital to their class. PIE is a backup stat for them just like STR is a backup stat for us.

[Razor]

I think that its too early to assume that stats will always work like that (theyve changed in a year after all).
Accuracy might not be an issue now but it may be in the future, same goes for Dexterity etc.
I am not saying that you have to worry now about what will happen later, but I'd keep in mind that stats will be fixed later.

All gear discussions may very well be voided as soon as AF gear comes out anyway lol, but you're right. I'm sure there will be instances were certain neglected stats get strange demands. (A boss with outrageously high evasion for instance, or like in XI where MNKs all went obnoxiously out of their way to stack MND so they could just Chi Blast Kirin lol)

[Meleena]

Razor parse your gear choice (Intelligence build) versus a lvl 50 Amaljaa and post here what you get please.
Hit him with AA for lets say 500 hits.

Edit (without fiststances)

[Razor]

Razor parse your gear choice (Intelligence build) versus a lvl 50 Amaljaa and post here what you get please.
Hit him with AA for lets say 500 hits.

Edit (without fiststances)

Alright, I see what I can do. It's about 4:40am here so I'ma catch some sleep and I work tomorrow but I'll try to get to it in a timely manner.

Just right off the bat rough numbers here I can tell you from my experience fighting lv52 monsters during gc leves is (ignoring crits)...

Average against pretty much everything (no fists); 70~90
Fists of Fire:
Against Ice elemental: 190~200
Against Fire/Wind elemental: 2~5 (lol)
Against other elementals: 110~130

Fists of Earth: (Lack of the attack+ bonus accounts for reduced boost, the defense bonus is actually pretty noticeable though)
Against Thunder elemental: 170~190
Against Earth/Water elemental: 2~5
Against other elementals: 80~110

Against non-elemental monsters, the magical damage bonus is reduced some but still exists. For instance, against a Snurble I do around 110~130 with Fists of Earth (snurbles are wind based).

Maximum damage against a lv52 Ice Elemental with Fists of Fire, Blindside, and Combo'd Howling Fist was 2305. But yeah, I'll try and put up more concrete numbers tomorrow sometime.

[Meleena]

I am more intrested in raw damage, no weaponskills no buffs.
After I am done with that Ill check what happens with stances and WS.