Periodic Warrior complaint thread episode 2

[Gojin]

real talk if you have PLD on main you dont even get an opinion about WARs get gone yo.

[Felorr]

real talk if you have PLD on main you dont even get an opinion about WARs get gone yo.

This is simply a childish way of thinking.

[Umbeliel]

This is simply a childish way of thinking.

Well... it's kind of the point. This is a thread for Warriors who are unhappy with how it currently is. Not for Paladins to be unhappy with Warriors who are unhappy. Like... that's the topic.

[Capn_Goggles]

If Warrior's DPS just boiled down to pressing fell cleave six times and tossing in an upheaval, we'd be seeing absurd margins in the top percentile of parses compared to the other two, as opposed to the very minute differences we're seeing. While the rotation is certainly daunting at first, it's not really the hard part about WAR; the largest issue I've encountered is timing and opportunity. Not only do you need to time your abilities to line up with inner release, but inner release itself has to be timed with the fight and the party in order to have as great a window as possible to fit in your burst rotation and maximize its damage.

Heck, I don't even think this is a bad thing, I LIKE having a tank that is challenging to play, but overcoming that barrier should see far greater rewards than what we're seeing.

[Umbeliel]

If Warrior's DPS just boiled down to pressing fell cleave six times and tossing in an upheaval, we'd be seeing absurd margins in the top percentile of parses compared to the other two, as opposed to the very minute differences we're seeing. While the rotation is certainly daunting at first, it's not really the hard part about WAR; the largest issue I've encountered is timing and opportunity. Not only do you need to time your abilities to line up with inner release, but inner release itself has to be timed with the fight and the party in order to have as great a window as possible to fit in your burst rotation and maximize its damage.

Heck, I don't even think this is a bad thing, I LIKE having a tank that is challenging to play, but overcoming that barrier should see far greater rewards than what we're seeing.

Absolutely agreed. I don't know that it's actually a problem that our gameplay is, relatively, high risk high reward compared to the other tanks. Variation in gameplay and skill floors is fine and dandy, just that the payoff for what it does isn't enough- in terms of DPS or utility or anything really.

[Soraki-Muppe]

After spending some time with WAR and getting more used to it these are my opinions, as in opinions not facts.
Unchained has one big problem and that is sharing a recast timer with IR, if they did not then this problem would be fixed.
Shake it off is getting a change in 4.1, still we have no idea what that change will be and considering that this thing made it into the game in the first place I have low expectations for this. Until the change WAR is running with only 3 new skills in this expansion.
IR, this skill turns us into a 1-trick pony so to say, that trick going by the name of fell cleave. IMHO this skill is a lazy way of providing a new "attack", instead of actually adding something new they let us spam an older skill over and over again.

Our ability to tank is fine, we have good mitigation with short recast making us able to easily plan out this part of the job.
On the other hand our party utility is none existing, If that is how SE want the job to be then they have to balance us in another way.

Moving our 20% damage increase from maim to eye changes nothing for WAR past level 50, it does however make for a huge dps nerf for lower level tanks, you know those levels when the only thing you have to keep threat is your tiny dps, no tank stance, no steel cyclone leaving you with nothing but overpower to keep aoe threat. With no way to regain tp as a WAR on these lower levels many will have tp problems, many will most likely also have threat problems and many might find this job horrible to play until lvl 30 when that tank stance come along. What I would like to see that I think would help with this is a new low level skill for WAR.
Perhaps call this skill Will of Steel and make it a skill that cost mp while giving tp, it would help lower level WAR with tp without making things unbalanced at max level, I mean is there seriously any WAR at max level that has tp problems?

[Kacho_Nacho]

*snip* Moving our 20% damage increase from maim to eye changes nothing for WAR past level 50, it does however make for a huge dps nerf for lower level tanks, you know those levels when the only thing you have to keep threat is your tiny dps, no tank stance, no steel cyclone leaving you with nothing but overpower to keep aoe threat. With no way to regain tp as a WAR on these lower levels many will have tp problems, many will most likely also have threat problems and many might find this job horrible to play until lvl 30 when that tank stance come along.

Very good post! I cannot comment on the raiding stuff like a grown-up warrior, but, I can absolutely say tanking as a low level warrior in SB is one of the most frustrating things in the game.

It's why I have one warrior among all my characters and she's only level 30. From the perspective of this bush league baby warrior, the job needs more threat. Either, buff the threat of our aggro generating combo or give us Flash back. It's no fun having mobs run willy-nilly because the dps are doing what they should be doing but you can't hold the threat.

And don't tell me to "Git Gud" either. I tank perfectly fine on my paladin. Switch to my warrior and I'm sweating bullets from the get go. That needs to change.

[Lyth]

...

In HW's combo system, I saw a lot of WAR players with 50% slashing debuff uptime, which is absolutely horrendous for both the player and their team. Personally, I would have moved it to Heavy Swing.

Between the effect swap on Maim and SE, the increase in SE's buff duration to 30 seconds instead of 20, and the shift in focus away from Butcher's Block, I'm seeing even average WAR players achieving much higher buff uptimes. Which makes sense, because there's no point even looking at improving your Berserk usage if you keep dropping your basic buffs. Overall, it was a pretty smart change.

Actually, if you look at most of the SB changes, be it to your damage buffs, to Berserk, or in unsyncing your mitigation moves (like IR and Vengeance) from your Berserk rotation, the job has become significantly more forgiving since HW. Which was kind of what the devs said they were going for with the job overhauls.

I don't really think that there is a good solution for improving the low levelling experience (nor does it seem to be a dev focus), but it's also designed in a lot of cases so that you don't actually need a competent tank. As long as it gets a beginning player thinking about how the actions connect together, it shouldn't be too much of an issue. You could add some kind of a low level "echo" bonus to boost passive MP/TP regeneration, but you don't want players to practice using an action that is unavailable at max level content.

[Brannigan]

Moving our 20% damage increase from maim to eye changes nothing for WAR past level 50

It was probably to prevent warriors in a party with a Samurai or Ninja from just doing Storm's Path combos exclusively (except when at 90 gauge I guess). It does screw up low levels though. They should probably move SE down.

[aleph_null]

Berserk timing hugely varies depending on how long the fight is expected to last. For a normal, average dps group you can fit 2 berserks between the tentacle phases and 2 more after the second tentacle phase. If you're aiming to kill him before second blackhole, hold your third berserk (second one after first tentacle phase) to do a full ir zerk rotation after second tentacle phase, and everyone in the group should hold their 2-3 min cds for that final burn after the vacuum wave.

Also, don't hold your opener for that long, you'll be missing raid buffs like litany, trick, embolden, battle voice, foe, stratagem and balance. Pop inner release and berserk around 5 gcds into the fight.