My first bad experience with another player. :o

[Coatl]

And queue times would be increased a million fold... You'd be lucky to get a pop... Because most players wouldn't do those dungeons if they were forced to watch cutscenes even if you offered them 10 billion gil and 450 of the weekly capped tomestone for doing it, .

Think you exaggerate it. I'd sit through every cutscene if the rewards were worth it. Like 200+ Creation would do it for me honestly. I mean I can watch like youtube on the side no problem. Hell maybe they're nice enough I can just go start getting dinner ready and I come back to free 200 creation waiting for me.

[Zigabar]

Because most players wouldn't do those dungeons if they were forced to watch cutscenes even if you offered them 10 billion gil and 450 of the weekly capped tomestone for doing it, as well as all the gear in the game and all the mounts and minions in the game.

I would absolutely give up an hour of my time to get all of that. DPS, Heals, Tank? Whatever the newbies need. Someone would have to be braindead to not take that offer.

[kikix12]

Or, good 'ol GW times, a cutscene is skipped only when everyone skips that.

That would effectively make the whole roulette unused, thus making its existence pointless.

The roulette is for players THAT CLEARED IT, to be rewarded for doing an otherwise useless content, so that others can CLEAR IT. There is absolutely nowhere, absolutely nothing, saying that these players need to be allowed watching the cutscenes.

Going by that ridiculously stupid logic of it being "the way it's meant to be played", you should never even use the duty finder! MMO's are "meant to be played" with friends!

There is an option to instantly skip all watched cutscenes. It is as much "as it should be played" to skip them and progress as it is to watch them and be left behind. The INN is made so that no one will lose anything, and the cutscenes can be repeated in the dungeon time and time and time again, so that you can come later to watch them "in the flow".


I still remember "good ol" MMO's where you actually had...*gasp* to look for a party! I know, I know, it's ridiculous, it looks unreal that there were games where you had to spend half an hour or more HOPING that you'll find a party by using the trade chat, map chat or whatever was available. "Warrior Lvl30 LFP in dungeon X, have a healer!". It seems that people become spoiled, and now you want not only party in 5 minutes, but also for them to wait on you for 45 minutes...Just cause you need to watch the cutscenes while doing the duty, instead of afterwards...(but still in order...).

Original poster, this is NOT aimed at you. I know that your only gripe is about the person writing what he did at the end of the dungeon, and on that point, I wrote earlier. But these ridiculous, overzealous people that do not have any idea what "compromise" is just...rubbed me the wrong way.

Point is simple. Want it your way?! Make your own party. Want it quick?! Deal with how the MAJORITY wants it. There is absolutely ZERO in terms of obstacles of finding a cutscene-viewing party. People don't care for looking for such parties cause they want to SAVE TIME. So it is the obvious right of others to not want to have THEIR time wasted, either. "Eye for an eye", time for time. If you want to save time, let others do the same.

[Gyson]

Original poster, this is NOT aimed at you. I know that your only gripe is about the person writing what he did at the end of the dungeon, and on that point, I wrote earlier. But these ridiculous, overzealous people that do not have any idea what "compromise" is just...rubbed me the wrong way.

After my initial clear, I have never had to run these two dungeons, outside of helping players that wanted to experience them with the story intact. You do not need to get poetics from this dungeon. You do not need to run these two dungeons for experience. What you want and need are two different things. New players, however, *do* have to run these two dungeons, and I believe most would prefer to watch the cutscenes while clearing them rather than watching them in an inn after.

You're awarded bonus rewards every time you're paired with a new player in these two dungeons. And yet you want to take said bonus and not give anything to the new players in return, beyond a speed-run experience they probably weren't wanting in the first place.

Why are you going to these dungeons if not to help players with their story missions, delivered to them in the way the developers intended? What do you need so badly from these two dungeons that you can't get elsewhere? What is so important there that you simply must spoil the experience for newer players?

[Snow_Princess]

Think you exaggerate it. I'd sit through every cutscene if the rewards were worth it. Like 200+ Creation would do it for me honestly. I mean I can watch like youtube on the side no problem. Hell maybe they're nice enough I can just go start getting dinner ready and I come back to free 200 creation waiting for me.

Just a bit....
But 200 creation/ 200verity/ 200 poetics, sure why not, make +50/+100/+100 for first time clear bonus too, do that and ya feel free disable allowing to skip, if not on a 70, triple exp then what we get now (quad if on bonus) I honesly do not think that is asking for too much, anything short of triple of what we get now, people will do other things for a better exp/hr

[kikix12]

Why are you going to these dungeons if not to help players with their story missions, delivered to them in the way the developers intended?

*Sigh* Read the post you respond to. I have very thoroughly, in multiple ways, explained why this "oh so important" argument is as valid for this whole discussion as the fact that I have no dog. Aka. not valid at all.

You do not need to get poetics from this dungeon. You do not need to run these two dungeons for experience. What you want and need are two different things. New players, however, *do* have to run these two dungeons, and I believe most would prefer to watch the cutscenes while clearing them rather than watching them in an inn after.

And?! I do not need the experience or poetics, but these players do not need the cutscenes, either. You said it yourself. They would prefer. In other words, your very argument invalidates itself. Not even two other arguments, but the very same argument you are trying to make. What the players need is a dungeon clear. And ironically, SKIPPING cutscenes and existence of the roulette are what make their need something, they can fulfill in a reasonable amount of time with barely any effort. That and...ya know...the experience and poetics that other people don't need, but most certainly want. And people tend to do stuff that leads to them getting what they want. Cause, you know, that's why people that cleared that stuff actually run it vast majority of the time.

I won't waste my time answering to your post beyond this now. I'm all for discussion, but a discussion is a back and forth trade of arguments and counterarguments (or information, but that's not applicable here). You did naught of that, merely stating the same thing as all the people before you that got me irked in the first place. You didn't even bother to write it differently! You did not try to counter a single one of my arguments.

[LineageRazor]

Why are you going to these dungeons if not to help players with their story missions, delivered to them in the way the developers intended? What do you need so badly from these two dungeons that you can't get elsewhere? What is so important there that you simply must spoil the experience for newer players?

Poetics can be obtained elsewhere... and it's a darned good thing that people DO choose to do the Roulette, instead, whether they choose to speed run or not. I won't bother trying to guess what your experience with MMOs might be, but coming from FFXI, I can assure you that trying to put together a party to run content with little or no rewards for most of the participants is pretty horrendous. It was not at all unusual for it to take days of searching to gather enough people to progress through old content. Heck, it could take days just to find three people willing to take ten minutes out of their spare time to stand on a few buttons in Garlaige Citidel so that you'd have a chance to find the treasure chest with your artifact armor in it - let alone a full party to tackle a battle that has a fairly high chance of ending in failure, as was the case with many Chains of Promathia fights.

Duty Finder is a godsend. It matches folks who need clears with folks willing to help out in exchange for rewards. The answer should never, ever be one that drives the mercenaries away, whether it be by reducing the rewards (less tomestones or a greater time investment) or by removing the roulette entirely. If you were to poll the average newbie, I think it is a VERY small percentage who would be content with days- or weeks-long party searches in exchange for getting the full cutscene experience. By far, the majority, whether happy with it or not, would prefer to clear the content in an afternoon, even if it means catching up in an inn.

That said, there ARE measures that SE could take to improve the situation. As some have said, a warning block informing newbies that it's an experience best enjoyed with friends rather than through Duty Finder would not be out of the question, or adding absurd rewards to players to ensure they are content to sit and wait while the cutscenes roll - but SE has already decided not to waste any more development time on this. Realistically, we need to decide how to live with what we have, and getting bitter about the status quo isn't going to help. Probably the best we can hope for is to use the Novice Network to inform new players of what they're getting into.

[Snow_Princess]

*Sigh* Read the post you respond to. I have very thoroughly, in multiple ways, explained why this "oh so important" argument is as valid for this whole discussion as the fact that I have no dog. Aka. not valid at all.

And?! I do not need the experience or poetics, but these players do not need the cutscenes, either. You said it yourself. They would prefer. In other words, your very argument invalidates itself. Not even two other arguments, but the very same argument you are trying to make. What the players need is a dungeon clear. And ironically, SKIPPING cutscenes and existence of the roulette are what make their need something, they can fulfill in a reasonable amount of time with barely any effort. That and...ya know...the experience and poetics that other people don't need, but most certainly want. And people tend to do stuff that leads to them getting what they want. Cause, you know, that's why people that cleared that stuff actually run it vast majority of the time.

I won't waste my time answering to your post beyond this now. I'm all for discussion, but a discussion is a back and forth trade of arguments and counterarguments (or information, but that's not applicable here). You did naught of that, merely stating the same thing as all the people before you that got me irked in the first place. You didn't even bother to write it differently! You did not try to counter a single one of my arguments.

Well said, keep in mind there is also a configuration character option to skip CS that you viewed already to bypass the loading time. So you can't (or rather the person your quoting) has no ground to stand on when it is said " help players with their story missions, delivered to them in the way the developers intended" The intent, as you said kiki, is to give people something that did it already that is worth their time. Keep in mind the alternatives out there (running at level DF) still nets more EXP, it is there to help bypass level ranges that are slow (51-61) should you chose you wanna do something different then deep once in a while. 60-61 exp gain sucks the most, compared to the exp gain speed in other ranges. MSQ and trial roulette help speed that up without repetitive grinding of one thing too much.

So the intent is to give something to people that did it already while helping new players.

Poetics can be obtained elsewhere... and it's a darned good thing that people DO choose to do the Roulette, instead, whether they choose to speed run or not. I won't bother trying to guess what your experience with MMOs might be, but coming from FFXI, I can assure you that trying to put together a party to run content with little or no rewards for most of the participants is pretty horrendous. It was not at all unusual for it to take days of searching to gather enough people to progress through old content. Heck, it could take days just to find three people willing to take ten minutes out of their spare time to stand on a few buttons in Garlaige Citidel so that you'd have a chance to find the treasure chest with your artifact armor in it - let alone a full party to tackle a battle that has a fairly high chance of ending in failure, as was the case with many Chains of Promathia fights.

Duty Finder is a godsend. It matches folks who need clears with folks willing to help out in exchange for rewards. The answer should never, ever be one that drives the mercenaries away, whether it be by reducing the rewards (less tomestones or a greater time investment) or by removing the roulette entirely. If you were to poll the average newbie, I think it is a VERY small percentage who would be content with days- or weeks-long party searches in exchange for getting the full cutscene experience. By far, the majority, whether happy with it or not, would prefer to clear the content in an afternoon, even if it means catching up in an inn.

That said, there ARE measures that SE could take to improve the situation. As some have said, a warning block informing newbies that it's an experience best enjoyed with friends rather than through Duty Finder would not be out of the question, or adding absurd rewards to players to ensure they are content to sit and wait while the cutscenes roll - but SE has already decided not to waste any more development time on this. Realistically, we need to decide how to live with what we have, and getting bitter about the status quo isn't going to help. Probably the best we can hope for is to use the Novice Network to inform new players of what they're getting into.

I do my best during runs to explain to people that are a bit bitter on people running ahead. As said before I had votes passed on people being over the top to the new players. In the end people turn to understanding when you explain to them people are not there to watch something they say 50 times that takes 1 hr to do so.

[ArcanoJones]

If people want to watch cutscenes at the time that the dungeon is happening instead of later when it doesn't matter anymore then I feel it is very rude to expect them to run through the dungeon in a rush. If you are getting into PUGs then you are the one who should be aware that people may view cutscenes. And no there are not any cutscenes that last an hour. And just because you have watched it 50 times. A new person has not ever seen it at all. And it is about something that is happening now.Not back in the Inn.

[Gyson]

Well said, keep in mind there is also a configuration character option to skip CS that you viewed already to bypass the loading time. So you can't (or rather the person your quoting) has no ground to stand on when it is said " help players with their story missions, delivered to them in the way the developers intended"

That option is to provide you with a way to skip cutscenes you've already watched, so you don't have to view the same cutscene repeatedly if you'd prefer not to. It is not a license to bully other players into skipping cutscenes and/or spoil a player's enjoyment on their first run through a story-dungeon.

If the developers intended for players to primarily view cutscenes inside of an inn instead of where they're placed in dungeons, then the devs wouldn't place said cutscenes in dungeons to begin with. They'd just throw up a message on the screen saying "visit your local inn for the corresponding cutscene - people want a speed run, yo.". Just because we have the option of watching cutscenes in an inn (handy if you just want to view a cutscene again for whatever reason) doesn't mean everyone should be expected to go that route.

So, no, there is nothing off with my question when I ask "Why are you going to these dungeons if not to help players with their story missions, delivered to them in the way the developers intended?". Because when developers place a cutscene in a dungeon, obviously they intended for it to be watched there by people who want to watch it. Otherwise, the dungeon wouldn't have cutscenes in it.

I won't waste my time answering to your post beyond this now. I'm all for discussion, but a discussion is a back and forth trade of arguments and counterarguments (or information, but that's not applicable here). You did naught of that, merely stating the same thing as all the people before you that got me irked in the first place. You didn't even bother to write it differently! You did not try to counter a single one of my arguments.

Of course you won't, because that would require answering some hard questions that you probably don't have any good answers for. Because in the end you're trying to make these two (for you) completely voluntary dungeon runs be entirely about you, instead of the new players who they were primarily intended for. And your sole answer for spoiling their experience is because you want XP and tokens you can get in plenty of other places, without spoiling anyone's enjoyment.

Typical modern player mentality.