My first bad experience with another player. :o

[Dark-Saviour]

That PF argument you keep throwing around, it goes both ways.

Not getting into everything else, just want to point out that in this case, the PF argument essentially only goes one way, and that is for players that want to take it slow to use it.

Because 'speedrunners' aren't doing CM/Praetorium for any rewards specific to these instances; they're there for the daily roulette reward. So outside of DF, there is no need/desire for them to run them at all.

[Zhamkyong]

I'd make damn sure to report them, I do report premade abuse:
http://support.na.square-enix.com/ru...2&tag=users_en
3.2 Disruption. You may not in any way disrupt or interfere with the Game experience of other players, including the disruption of Square Enix's computers and servers.

I am curious, can this work the other way around for them? In the case Spiro stated, they could have report the leavers for interfering with their game experience which in this case was to play the duty with the CS.

[Snow_Princess]

I am curious, can this work the other way around for them? In the case Spiro stated, they could have report the leavers for interfering with their game experience which in this case was to play the duty with the CS.

Depends how things are said, in that story the premade was forcing people to do something, and that is a violation. Most speed runs are like sure you can watch cs but we are running it like normal and most of the time this is where there is no violation on either end. as said I even saw kick passes on people harassing newcomers for watching, so ya that is a violation.

[Syrellaris]

From my experience if you are going to go into dungeons with the intent of experiencing them on your terms you must either
a) Skip the cut-scenes to accommodate people you don't know.
b) Play with a group of friends who understand you value story and custcenes
or c) Develop a thicker hide and ignore people who want you to skip the content you enjoy.

I have a macro on my bar that says "I'm New to this area. As this is my first time, I will not be skipping any cutscenes; sorry for the inconvenience."
I leave it at that. I have only had one person gripe at me, and I promptly ignored them, everyone else has been pretty nice in one way or another.

Honestly, as a tank.. if people just tell me they are new and want to watch Cutscenes then I am more then okay with it. But if you don't tell me you're new, don't expect me to wait in those old dungeons.
That is one of the reasons why I never do MSQ Roulette though.. I utterly despise it.

[AkashiXI]

Depends how things are said, in that story the premade was forcing people to do something, and that is a violation. Most speed runs are like sure you can watch cs but we are running it like normal and most of the time this is where there is no violation on either end. as said I even saw kick passes on people harassing newcomers for watching, so ya that is a violation.

It's been stated by GMs that, in Duty Finder, majority wins. Meaning, if 3 out of 4 want to speed run a POTD, then they have every right to kick the guy who is going for chests. Likewise for story content, people can speed run through if the majority wants to. Would I personally do that? No, I feel the overall experience of others is more important my single selfish gain. However, that doesn't make my personal beliefs any higher than the rules that are in place. There is nothing reportable about what happened.

[Snow_Princess]

It's been stated by GMs that, in Duty Finder, majority wins. Meaning, if 3 out of 4 want to speed run a POTD, then they have every right to kick the guy who is going for chests. Likewise for story content, people can speed run through if the majority wants to. Would I personally do that? No, I feel the overall experience of others is more important my single selfish gain. However, that doesn't make my personal beliefs any higher than the rules that are in place. There is nothing reportable about what happened.

Nope it is premade trolling, they could of easily chose to unsync it, you never met the premade trolling that intentionally wipe things and such like that? so your guideline does not apply esp when you can abuse it. "3/4 want to jump around and wipe to the boss" so those 3 are in violation. (I seen this before and yes I did report it, you can't say majority rules when the majority is aimed to grief the minority.)

I disagree you ever saw gms say that, I like to see proof, because it can be easily abused, as I just explained. (Also no GM refused to take my call when reporting situations like this)

3.2 Disruption. You may not in any way disrupt or interfere with the Game experience of other players, including the disruption of Square Enix's computers and servers.

That is the rule, says nothing about giving the majority a pass to grief the minority.

[Blackcanary]

You need to go with what the party is doing, they're running ahead? You run ahead. You and your friend leeched this party. I'd have booted you. Your experience is not worth more than mine or the parties.

I'm sorry but that's just the stupidest thing i have ever heard. If someone wants to watch the cut scene cause its there first time seeing it and they don't want to kill their experience they shouldn't have to because jerks like you want to do a speed run.

[Zhamkyong]

I disagree you ever saw gms say that, I like to see proof, because it can be easily abused, as I just explained. (Also no GM refused to take my call when reporting situations like this)

I am sure it has been told on the forums more than once that thing, i can not give you proof because i dont remember where it was.

Now, the issue is quite delicate on both sides. On one hand we have those who come to see the story and encounter a wall of people that forces them to do a speed-run. Of course, they will not look at the forums to see what the consensus of the community -a part of it- regarding the CS that may appear. On the other hand we have those who are going to do their daily and end up in these two dungeons. They want to come in, do and leave. Ideally for everyone is that players in each case reach a medium term, but as a general rule that new player see the CS is going to be considered a bad thing for the rest. A Cs that represents its history, to understand what happens in that dungeon. Being FFXIV an MMO based on its history, is a very big problem that we all have to face sooner or later ... I had to end up seeing it at the inn to understand what had happened there.

For a new player, having to do that is an unpleasant experience -especially having the party finder those who want a quick run-. For some who are going to do the daily ones, the new one is a hindrance that is going to stay stopped eating experience.

No matter how nobody wins, it is a problem with few solutions if no one agrees.

[LineageRazor]

A tale as old as time, a song as old as rhyme...

This thread has covered pretty much all the arguments now, so I'll be brief:
- The dungeon is poorly designed, SE knows this, and has not repeated the mistake in later content. The amount of time spent in cutscenes in CM and Prae are pretty outrageous.
- SE has no intention of fixing the problem. Fortunately, there are workarounds, particularly as the higher level caps make unsync runs easier and easier.
- "If they want it their way, they should do it in party finder!" applies to BOTH sides of the argument. Duty Finder puts you with random people with uncertain goals, and once in, majority rules. Majority usually means, skip cutscenes, finish quickly.
- Both sides have very good arguments. New players should be free to experience the dungeon as intended. Old players should be free to finish the dungeon quickly and efficiently. Sadly, these goals are pretty incompatible.
- Removing the roulette, or forcing viewing of cutscenes are terrible ideas. New players depend heavily on veterans to fill their parties in Duty Finder. Skipping cutscenes sucks, but waiting hours or even days for a party sucks more.

[Ariyn]

If they are playing the dungeon for loot or for any other reason that they want to go quickly, then they can use the Party Finder. If they got in there because of Roulette, then I guess it should be taken out of Roulette. That would be a simple solution from SE's side.

I just wanted to point out a little something here since this seems more like a new player thread. If SE was to do as you suggest and remove these from the roulette, then you would be waiting hours, if not days, to actually complete these things that are required to progress the game. Most people who have done this so many times absolutely hate to even have this pop up in a roulette because of the time requirement. That's the reason the current trend has become "tank agro everything and beeline straight for the boss room and mobs will reset". If you fall behind in that rush you will die. A lot. But that's the nature of the beast to get it done easily. The other route to go is to put up a PF for help saying you will be watching cutscenes. It may take a lot longer to get in but you won't have the issue that you had.