Where are all the healers?

[Maeka]

I appreciate your transparency, but I would challenge this. If the other two roles are expected to stay more or less on top of their GCDs and not take mini-breaks during active gameplay, why should the healer role be exempt from that expectation? Doesn't seem very equitable.

That being said, there is a huge gray area between world-first efficiency and complete sloth, and the vast majority of players happy with a visible effort. And again, healer DPS is quite impactful if executed even to a fairly average degree.

If a DPS takes a break or looks away from the screen, etc, he loses some DPS or maybe eats an AoE (hopefully not, lol).

If Healer looks away from the screen, etc, someone might end up getting killed. A healer's job is a lot more important, and he has far less leeway than a DPS does. If a DPS decides to stare at the screen slack-jawed for 10 seconds at a time (or if they have to half-AFK for 10 seconds because something happened RL) then it's not such a big deal as long as he is at least dodging the AoEs.

If a healer does this... the tank WILL die, period and everybody else will be enjoying a nap right behind him. Well, unless the tank is a Paladin maybe. But even then.

Being a healer is far more stressful and if you screw up too badly, the entire group will be dead. The only time a DPS causes a wipe is enrage, or failure to deal with mechanics on bosses (such as stacking/spreading out, or not killing adds, etc).

So the reason why a healer might be entitled to a break more often is because, yes, their job is quite a bit more stressful and demanding.

Also, since I've played Tank, Heals, and DPS at Lv60+, I can tell you that as a DPS, especially one like SAM that has no utility/etc, it is much more laid-back. I only need to care about Me, dodging AoEs, and doing whatever special stuff I need to do for a boss (picking up Yojimbo's coins, etc). I don't have to even look at my party window whatsoever, I only pay attention to me, my abilities, my cooldowns, etc.

As a Healer... I need to keep track of everybody's well-being including my own, dodge AoEs, and if I should DPS I need to make sure I can do so safely, if it's a good time to do so, I keep to keep an eye on DPS to make sure somebody didn't derp into an AoE or something... etc. It's far more work. Playing a SAM is... barely even 25% of the work/stress/attention span required. So yes, I would expect a SAM, for example, to be mashing their buttons constantly moreso than I would expect a healer to do the same. The healer does far more work.

EDIT: You edited your post, and I didn't notice it haha. To reply to the second line of what you said, yes I do believe in a grey area (in fact the post of mine you quoted, I asked 'can't there be a happy medium?'. I don't want to see a healer (or anybody for that matter) sitting in the corner doing who-knows-what while we're doing all the work.

[Cynfael]

If a DPS takes a break or looks away from the screen, etc, he loses some DPS or maybe eats an AoE (hopefully not, lol).

If Healer looks away from the screen, etc, someone might end up getting killed. A healer's job is a lot more important, and he has far less leeway than a DPS does. If a DPS decides to stare at the screen slack-jawed for 10 seconds at a time (or if they have to half-AFK for 10 seconds because something happened RL) then it's not such a big deal as long as he is at least dodging the AoEs.If a healer does this... the tank WILL die, period and everybody else will be enjoying a nap right behind him. Well, unless the tank is a Paladin maybe. But even then.

Being a healer is far more stressful and if you screw up too badly, the entire group will be dead. The only time a DPS causes a wipe is enrage, or failure to deal with mechanics on bosses (such as stacking/spreading out, or not killing adds, etc).

So the reason why a healer might be entitled to a break more often is because, yes, their job is quite a bit more stressful and demanding.

Also, since I've played Tank, Heals, and DPS at Lv60+, I can tell you that as a DPS, especially one like SAM that has no utility/etc, it is much more laid-back. I only need to care about Me, dodging AoEs, and doing whatever special stuff I need to do for a boss (picking up Yojimbo's coins, etc). I don't have to even look at my party window whatsoever, I only pay attention to me, my abilities, my cooldowns, etc.

As a Healer... I need to keep track of everybody's well-being including my own, dodge AoEs, and if I should DPS I need to make sure I can do so safely, if it's a good time to do so, I keep to keep an eye on DPS to make sure somebody didn't derp into an AoE or something... etc. It's far more work. Playing a SAM is... barely even 25% of the work/stress/attention span required. So yes, I would expect a SAM, for example, to be mashing their buttons constantly moreso than I would expect a healer to do the same. The healer does far more work.

EDIT: You edited your post, and I didn't notice it haha. To reply to the second line of what you said, yes I do believe in a grey area (in fact the post of mine you quoted, I asked 'can't there be a happy medium?'. I don't want to see a healer (or anybody for that matter) sitting in the corner doing who-knows-what while we're doing all the work.

I'll agree that, in most encounters, DPS have the easiest job in that their lapses rarely derail the party. I find that this swaps somewhat in Savage encounters, where a healer's death might be recoverable, but DPS death can make an encounter impossible to complete due to the enrage timer.

On the other hand, when you know the encounters, especially routine dungeon stuff, you really could get away with watching Netflix, clipping your toenails, filing your tax return, etc. and not jeopardize the party. Healing is a more visible responsibility, but the trade-off, IMO, is that it's the most mechanically uncomplicated, stress-free job in the game as far as execution goes.

I play all healers, PLD, BLM, and RDM at 70, so I know what you mean as far as most DPS jobs not having to be overly concerned with party interaction. Of course, that comes with a reasonable expectation to pay attention to rotations, timers, and whatnot. If I want to do mostly my own thing for daily content, I'll run a DPS; if I want things over quickly and feel like taking the path of least resistance, I'll go WHM and blow up trash while keeping the tank healthy with my ridiculous number of oGCD heals and HoTs. No rotation on which my optimal damage (or healing) depends, no timers to keep track of, just heal and nuke.

I suppose my rambling point is that the healer role can actually be less stressful depending on how you look at it, so I'm not sure I'm onboard with the idea that healers deserve more breaks in their gameplay.

[HoodRat]

Also, since I've played Tank, Heals, and DPS at Lv60+, I can tell you that as a DPS, especially one like SAM that has no utility/etc, it is much more laid-back. I only need to care about Me, dodging AoEs, and doing whatever special stuff I need to do for a boss (picking up Yojimbo's coins, etc). I don't have to even look at my party window whatsoever, I only pay attention to me, my abilities, my cooldowns, etc.

So you're one of those dps that won't use goad, diversion, etc. lowering the dps of other people in your party?

[ThunderGodThor]

So the reason why a healer might be entitled to a break more often is because, yes, their job is quite a bit more stressful and demanding.

It doesn't really concern me whether a healer does damage, I just assume those that don't are inexperienced in that particular duty or not confident in their ability to balance damage and healing, which is fair.

However, nobody should be taking a break during duties, it's frankly disrespectful to the other party members who are (hopefully) always busy doing something.

[Maeka]

So you're one of those dps that won't use goad, diversion, etc. lowering the dps of other people in your party?

*shrugs* Never needed it to be honest. Nobody who uses TP should be running out of TP unless they are mindlessly spamming AoE rotations infinitely. I suppose it goes back to the whole multipull culture where you must pull as many freaking mobs as you possibly can at once, but I've never really enjoyed that playstyle to be honest. I'll do some AoE, but it almost looks as though that you were meant to do 2-3 AoE rotations and then switch to single-target, almost as if the game was designed to be played in such a way that you are meant to pull... *gasp* single pulls.

When you do single pulls and focus-fire mobs, damage to the tank goes way down, healer can DPS more, and best yet, you don't need Goad. Again, single-target DPS will never, ever run you out of TP, ever. In fact, you gain TP while single-target. If people are running out of TP, then they need to manage TP. Yes, TP is an actual resource, and yes it needs managed. Goad shouldn't be a "I can do whatever I want" button, and you're forgetting that there's only 3 people in the group who can even receive Goad in the first place. The tank sure as heck shouldn't need it (unless you got some Paladin spamming Eclipse over and over again but that shouldn't be happening; one should know their limits), so that leaves the two DPS, and that's assuming that one of them isn't a mage.

As for Diversion... eh, why does Diversion "lower other peoples' DPS"? It reduces enmity. Nobody should be pulling hate, ever, unless the tank is failing his job. This isn't FFXI where a MBing Black Mage might pull the mob off the tank. And even if they did pull hate, that's what Provoke is for.

So, let's look at the other 5 options:

Leg Sweep: You're going to pass up the ability to stun AoEs? Surely not.
Second Wind: This is nice if you get clipped by an attack or something and you know the Healer isn't in a good position to heal you, or you just want some extra insurance.
Invigorate: You don't need someone Goad you if you have Invigorate, lol. Instead of complaining about people not Goading you, maybe you should have taken Invigorate?
Bloodbath: A bit of passive HoT, doesn't hurt
True North: Depending on which melee you are, this can also be nice to have.

So, to even slot Goad, it's difficult to find room for it. And even if I did slot Goad, it has a 180 second cooldown. You're going to use a 2 seconds per 3 minutes in trying to counter my argument that a DPS like SAM barely even needs to look at their party window? lol?

However, nobody should be taking a break during duties, it's frankly disrespectful to the other party members who are (hopefully) always busy doing something.

I think you're misconstruing what I mean by 'take a break'. Or are you one of those tryhards who think that you should be, at every possible moment, sitting on the edge of your seat, always mashing buttons constantly? Sorry, but I like to enjoy my playtime, I like to relax a little, lean back in the chair. I don't go for 5s+ doing nothing (unless something happens IRL that forces it), but I don't use absolutely every GCD and spend next-to-zero time outside of GCD either. I mean, seriously now. Demanding almost-zero non-GCD is ridiculous.

[RichardButte]

However, in a dungeon due to idiot pulls, I just spam heal on the tank 24/7 until they are down to the last 2 or so mobs. It had gotten so bad that one time, I literally fell asleep on my keyboard because I was just standing there pressing heal for so long.

This is the other issue with healing in this game...

Generally bland healing mechanics + bland DPS mechanics = bland all around

And what's so strange is that the DPS and tank classes in XIV have these really great, really interesting rotations and mechanics that engage you, often with a few random proc mechanics thrown in for spice.

These rotations also often have you make decisions on the fly that help you get the most out of your class, and it feels highly satisfying when you do. The question of "What should I do now?" is not immediately obvious and not always a straight line (and this is even in dungeons while leveling, not just savage raids).

With healing, though, I feel like the answer to the question of "What should I do now?" is always immediately apparent. I specifically chose to level AST in the hopes that the card system would add enough of a random element to the class that it would be interesting and fun. Sadly, there's still a flowchart rotation to the cards (even when using sleeve draw) and once you have it down, it too just becomes another linear and boring part of the class.

The damage being done to players is generally predictable, and a single regen ticking on the tank negates all auto attack damage. I actually find myself enjoying healing more while doing hunts because of the sporadic nature of how damage is done to players.

I fully accept that healing may just not be for me in this game (though it is in every other MMO...), but the setup of the three roles just feels jarring...

Tanks have varied and interesting rotations to tank, DPS have varied and interesting rotations to DPS, but healers play like DPS classes with the sidejob of topping off the party, and neither the DPS OR the healing abilities have the depth to them that other roles have for their rotations.

I COULD compare the healers in XIV to healers in other MMOs, but I'd much rather just compare the healers in XIV to the DPS in XIV and say, "What happened, devs? Did you use up all of the good ideas on DPS and just call it a day?"

Hell, a healer with a rotation that played even half like MCH's would be an absolute BLAST: fire off a small, mana efficient instant heal that combos into a larger heal, or a HoT, or maybe even a shield, or another buff of some kind. RDM's rotation would also be very fun to heal with, like you build up your white mana with small weak heals (or even via DPSing) to spend on bigger heals when needed.

It would be so much better than Regen > Cure > Cure > Cure > Cure > Cure > Cure > Cure > Cure > Cure > Cure > Regen > Cure > Cure > Cure > Cure > AoE Heal > Cure > Cure > Cure > etc., etc. (with pressing a few DPS buttons between every healing spell, I mean).

[bswpayton]

[QUOTE=Maeka;4375205]*shrugs* Never needed it to be honest. Nobody who uses TP should be running out of TP unless they are mindlessly spamming AoE rotations infinitely. I suppose it goes back to the whole multipull culture where you must pull as many freaking mobs as you possibly can at once, but I've never really enjoyed that playstyle to be honest. I'll do some AoE, but it almost looks as though that you were meant to do 2-3 AoE rotations and then switch to single-target, almost as if the game was
Single targetting mobs make dungeons take longer than they should most dungeons should take under 20 mins, when Im in groups and takes do 3 add pulls he is adding 10 extra mins to the run which is a waste of time

[Dregenfox]

If a healer does this... the tank WILL die, period and everybody else will be enjoying a nap right behind him. Well, unless the tank is a Paladin maybe. But even then.

Being a healer is far more stressful and if you screw up too badly, the entire group will be dead. The only time a DPS causes a wipe is enrage, or failure to deal with mechanics on bosses (such as stacking/spreading out, or not killing adds, etc).

I personally don't find healing all that stressful because everything is scripted. Technically, a DPS can wipe the group just as easily as a healer, it's just not as noticeable since most groups will die before enrage during progression, and by the time you get to enrage most DPS have improved dramatically.

I'd be willing to bet if they put in an enrage/DPS check every minute or so in savage, groups will wipe to that just as often as groups wipe to heal checks.

[Vyriah]

I'd be willing to bet if they put in an enrage/DPS check every minute or so in savage, groups will wipe to that just as often as groups wipe to heal checks.

That's what happened in Gorgias, and they're not doing it again because every found it too hard.

But I think the problem is the exact same with Omega right now : it's not about being hard, it's about being dull. Gorgias DPs checks were about "if the boss doesn't lose 3% of its like in the next few seconds, every one explode". It's like "or every one explode" is what mechanic means in FF XIV, actually. Omega is the same with "and every one explode".

Look at T1 adds : they don't enrage, killing them is actually pretty much a wipe. It doesn't asks biggest number possible, it asks just the right numbers. Ifrit EX also have a fantastic DPS check : you have to kill the nail before every dies but kill them too fast and every one dies.
This is good and I've seen people stumbling on this in synched because they didn't get that little subtility. That's fucking clever design, it mechanically "difficult" (I know that's not difficult enough by this forum amazing players, but that's not what I mean by difficulty) not just "hurr durr big numbers" difficult.

[Asuras]

I'm one of the healers that switched from SCH to RDM. Part of it was because I thought it would be easier and part of it was because of the SCH nerfs. But man... DPSing is harder than I thought. I'm used to the luxury of just glancing at the party bar and having more raid awareness of my surroundings on my healer. On my RDM I pretty much have to stare at my hotbar and gauge the entire fight or lose DPS. If I don't memorize where I need to be so I can spend more time staring at my hotbar, I lose DPS. If I even glance at the party bar to raise someone I lose DPS. It's DPS DPS DPS... or get kicked. Not exactly complaining but it's a lot different than what I was used to... I can't believe people say it's so easy. I may level up my SCH again. I already got savage loot on my RDM though so may wait until the next cycle.