Anyone Else Find Sprint No Longer Using TP Making Tanks Even Worse?

[Ftail]

In which dungeon boss fight are you required to use sprint just before the fight ends? If you had to use sprint right before the end, it was likely because of a mistake you made.

I never said you were required to use sprint for any dungeon boss fight, the point of my post was to let tanks know that this is a multiplayer game and you can't just ignore the rest of the party. The same goes for every other role, everyone needs to have a some amount of situational awareness. Maybe RL stuff happens and distracts the healer for a few seconds like a cat jumping on a keyboard, or maybe their sprint is on cooldown, the reasoning doesn't matter, both tanks and healers and even the DPS need to pay attention to each others current situation. Instead of blaming an individual by saying, "we wiped because of a mistake you made, you shouldn't have used sprint during the boss fight." People can instead take group responsibility without pointing fingers at each other.

[Ftail]

Part 2:

So I would say it made a lot of tanks play worse, but the tanks that do use sprint well make them play MUCH better.

I think OP is blaming tanks for this like you said, which goes back to my previous point of taking group responsibility for errors being made on both sides, but at the same time I think he is making some valid points. I don't entirely agree with him, but I see his point of view and the point he is trying to make.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I had the same result. Macroed in "Casting Protect, please stay close! " Had a tank run off, see that, and run *back* to be in the cast. A little bit of polite communication goes a long way.

I... I think I may have been that tank? I remember macro like that! Although, that was more a "Right! Forgot she hadn't cast Protect yet"

[winsock]

the point of my post was to let tanks know that this is a multiplayer game and you can't just ignore the rest of the party.
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Maybe RL stuff happens and distracts the healer for a few seconds like a cat jumping on a keyboard...

As I said before, if the tank can prevent the wipe/deaths they should.

The problem with your logic is that you are blaming the tank for ignoring the party by not adjusting for the distracted healer, and immediately make excuses for the healer when they ignore the party. What if a tank doesn't see the healer fall behind and can't compensate for the healer's negligence because the tank was partially distracted by something in RL like a cat?

Why is the "point of your post" to let tanks know they can't ignore the party, instead of letting healers know they can't ignore the party?

[Tridus]

I... I think I may have been that tank? I remember macro like that! Although, that was more a "Right! Forgot she hadn't cast Protect yet"

Oh cool.

I believe that almost every time it happens it's because someone forgot about it, like you said. If you're not healing that dungeon, it's easy to forget its there because you never have to think about it. Pretty happy to say that zero people have run off and missed Protect since I added that in.

[Ftail]

What if a tank doesn't see the healer fall behind..

It's called having situational awareness, if you want to be a good player you need to have it. You don't even need to turn your camera around to look as you can just peek at your minimap for the other players positions.

The problem with your logic is that you are blaming the tank for ignoring the party by not adjusting for the distracted healer?

I never blamed only the tanks, please actually read my posts.

...taking group responsibility for errors being made on both sides.

If you want to point fingers and only blame the healer for the tank sprinting off and dying when the healers sprint is on cooldown, go ahead. Personally, I'll lay blame at both the healer and tanks feet as they both share part of the blame.

[winsock]

It's called having situational awareness, if you want to be a good player you need to have it. You don't even need to turn your camera around to look as you can just peek at your minimap for the other players positions.

Alternatively, the healer could keep up.

I never blamed only the tanks, please actually read my posts.

I am referring to: "the point of my post was to let tanks know that this is a multiplayer game and you can't just ignore the rest of the party"
Why tanks?

If you want to point fingers and only blame the healer for the tank sprinting off and dying when the healers sprint is on cooldown, go ahead. Personally, I'll lay blame at both the healer and tanks feet as they both share part of the blame.

Personally, I don't think it's right to blame the tank for failing to adjust for the healer's mistake. Just like I won't blame a healer if a dps dies to avoidable dmg.

[Ftail]

Alternatively, the healer could keep up.

Actually, when a tank is using sprint and the healer doesn't have it up it's simply not possible to "keep up".

Why tanks?

I'm convinced you didn't read my post except for the very first sentence before posting your outrage.

The same goes for every other role, everyone needs to have a some amount of situational awareness.

Personally, I don't think it's right to blame the tank for failing to adjust for the healer's mistake. Just like I won't blame a healer if a dps dies to avoidable dmg.

That comparison isn't even relevant, if you want to falsely believe that everything is the healers fault when a tank sprints off ignoring that the healer is having trouble keeping up because sprint was on cooldown and dies alone because of it, go ahead.

[Ftail]

Winsock if you want to have an intellectually honest debate, I'm down for that. However, I am not solely blaming tanks so please stop taking my quotes out of context and read my entire message please. If a tank sprints off and dies alone because the healer couldn't keep up, it's the healers fault for not keeping up and the tanks fault for ignoring that his healer was falling far behind. I'm not laying blame solely on the tanks and to imply that I am doing so, is incredibly intellectually dishonest. I honestly can't even remember the last time I wiped in a 4 man dungeon, but this idea that everything is always the healers fault from your own perspective is an incredibly disgusting attitude to have.

Personally, I don't think it's right to blame the tank for failing to adjust for the healer's mistake.

This is a team based game, not a 1 man solo show. If a tank decides to sprint off solo and die, because the healers sprint was on cooldown or maybe because the healer popped sprint late, tanks also have a responsibility to pay attention to their group. Just as the rest of the group needs to pay attention to the tank. I've made my stance abundantly clear, so I'm leaving this thread now, have fun taking my posts out of context again.

[winsock]

Winsock if you want to have an intellectually honest debate, I'm down for that.
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If a tank sprints off and dies alone because the healer couldn't keep up, it's the healers fault for not keeping up and the tanks fault for ignoring that his healer was falling far behind.

Okay, so intellectual debate. Should a player be blamed for failing to correct a mistake made by another player? In my opinion, no. If the mistake is corrected, that is icing on the cake.

Here is a scenario that isn't exactly common, but certainly happens enough to be used as an example:
A tank begins a big pull, tagging mobs along the way. A DPS pulls one of the mobs off the tank, and the tank will not be able to regain threat via a ranged ability. This is fairly 'normal' within the scope of issues that can potentially happen, and most DPS know that they can drop the mob off on the tank at the end of the pull to recover without any significant issues should they accidentally pull.

The tank is faced with a decision. Do they stop the pull short and backtrack a bit to recover the dropped add? Or do they assume the DPS will correct their mistake themselves? The DPS isnt currently moving, but that isn't a reliable indicator. Sometimes the DPS just wants to use XYZ ability before continuing. The tank decides the DPS probably knows how to correct their mistake and continues the pull normally.

The healer notices that distance has increased between one of the dps and the tank. The healer knows for sure that the tank will die if they don't follow, but that the dps might okay. The DPS may end up pulling the mob to the group, but even if they dont, they might be able to take it solo and not need a healer, so the healer decides to follow the tank.

Several seconds pass, the DPS dies, but the pull is ultimately successful, despite being slower having only 1 dps.

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In my opinion, the DPS is the only one at fault here. When this happens in game, I dont make an issue of it, but inform the DPS that if they do accidently pull, they can pull the mob to the tank to recover.

In no way would I fault the healer or the tank for the dps dying, and dont believe the dps has any justification in crying "where were my heals?" or "why didn't you hold threat?"

Do you think the tank and healer hold blame in this scenario?