Tales from the Storm Discussion

[YianKutku]

I actually really like stories which explore what characters do in their downtime, like this one. No major revelations, no unexpected twists, no explosive action. Just people talking to each other, being people.

I mean, I recall one of the more popular reveals from the lorebook was that Aymeric liked birch syrup in his morning tea. Close behind was the fact that Aymeric tried teaching Lucia his original recipe for dodo omelettes, but Lucia still has no interest in cooking.

Nothing there is relevant to the story. There is no hidden meaning behind the dodo omelettes. But such pieces of trivia are still popular, because they are one more tidbit in favour of these characters being people, rather than plot devices.

The Scions having a day out at a cake patisserie and spending their time gossiping is exactly the sort of thing I want. I do understand the concerns, since we don't have an unlimited number of story slots to tell all the stories that need telling. But I try to think of these stories as bonuses, rather than limited offerings. And if I were to get bonuses, I'd be happy with stories such as these, with nothing but idle chatter.

[Mysterysword]

I actually really like stories which explore what characters do in their downtime, like this one. No major revelations, no unexpected twists, no explosive action. Just people talking to each other, being people.

I can let go of the fact that this one was mainly banal conversation, but... did it have to be a bunch of girls talking about the men in their lives? Don't they honestly have any other topic to talk about? How about having Alisaie complain about Tataru not giving her pants, in Ishgard, no less? Have Lyse raise concerns that Tataru forgot her shirt. Anything that could've let us pass the Bechdel test on this one.

Because FF XIV's female characters have honestly not been treated very well, and I would like to kind of see that maybe change a little.

[FJerome]

I can let go of the fact that this one was mainly banal conversation, but... did it have to be a bunch of girls talking about the men in their lives? Don't they honestly have any other topic to talk about? How about having Alisaie complain about Tataru not giving her pants, in Ishgard, no less? Have Lyse raise concerns that Tataru forgot her shirt. Anything that could've let us pass the Bechdel test on this one.

The Bechdel Test doesn't require women to never, ever discuss men ever. Just that they discuss other things besides men, which they do pretty much everywhere else but here. This story doesn't exist in a vacuum.

(Besides, this does pass it. They discuss Lyse's work rebuilding Ala Mhigo and they discuss Alisaie trying to live up to the WoL, who in a lot of play-throughs is a woman.)

[Mysterysword]

snip

The Bechdel Test, at its most basic, requires at least 2 women to have one single conversation that does not mention a man. That is it at its core. This story doesn't pass it. It is one continuous conversation that keeps leading back to a topic concerning a man. Lyse's work ends up involving a man. The WoL being male or female doesn't count.

[Keever]

The WoL being male or female doesn't count.

Uh... huh? Why not? Just because you said so?

[Mysterysword]

Uh... huh? Why not? Just because you said so?

This is a moot point because the story already fails the Bechdel Test regardless of the WoL's gender, but by nature, any conversation involving the WoL would be impossible to apply the Bechdel Test to. Because for every person who wants to claim the WoL is canonically male, there's another who would claim the opposite. And they would both be right. So to save us all time and sanity, we should just cut out all references to the WoL when applying the Bechdel Test.

Because women would never discuss potential romantic prospects over a relaxing meal....

Look, the women in FF14 are plenty active and competent. Y'shtola and Merlwyb in particular. Discussions on relationships almost never happen. We almost always only see talk of work. If all they ever talked about was guys then yeah sure, this would be a bit on the nose.

So why can't they discuss other things and not bring romance into it at all? Contrary to what most men may believe, romance does not have to play a major or even minor role in a woman's life. And I don't think we really need to see them discussing their relationships, because their relationships with these men are shown in-game already.

What I'm going to ask here is: Why are these female characters apparently so defined by their relationships to men, that even the most banal conversations between them eventually swing back to revolving around men?

[FJerome]

What I'm going to ask here is: Why are these female characters apparently so defined by their relationships to men, that even the most banal conversations between them eventually swing back to revolving around men?

We are nearly 7 years in since the launch of the original game and to my knowledge this is the first time we've ever seen a scene like this? This is specifically a moment they're set aside to relax and take a breather, why wouldn't they make chit-chat about romance? They talk about weightier matters too but even if they didn't, it doesn't invalidate them as strong and serious characters that they may have some opposite-sex romantic interest and also talk about close male relatives sometimes?

[Belhi]

So why can't they discuss other things and not bring romance into it at all? Contrary to what most men may believe, romance does not have to play a major or even minor role in a woman's life. And I don't think we really need to see them discussing their relationships, because their relationships with these men are shown in-game already.

What I'm going to ask here is: Why are these female characters apparently so defined by their relationships to men, that even the most banal conversations between them eventually swing back to revolving around men?

Frankly, if you think that these characters are so defined by their relationships with men then you have paid almost no attention to their development in game. We have seen in detail how these women define themselves and all three are strong, independent and competent. The only one of the three that is defined at all by a male is Alaesie and her brother is as defined by his relationship to her as vice versa.

Are you seriously saying that a group of friends kicking back and relaxing will never talk about personal romantic relationships? That romantic relationships are a minor role in peoples lives? I don't now about you but most people I know of any gender consider things like that pretty important.

Look, if this was all that they would talk about fine. But its just a couple of friends chatting and things like this we rarely see them talk about. We are almost always discussing the fate of the realm. That really isn't relaxing talk to have over drinks. Further how are their relationships with these men shown in game. We haven't even met the guy Lyse mentioned. You act like they spend their whole time talking about relationships.