Tales from the Storm Discussion

[Rosenoire]

Her "path to leadership" storyline throughout Stormblood was also okay. Not great, but okay. I could tell that they were making efforts to get Lyse aware of the fact that not all injustice can or should be tackled head-on, and while she rarely likes it, Lyse does seem to understand. Folks have been critical of Lyse's lack of impact during the Orthard part of the storyline, but this did not bother me. She was watching, and she was learning. It did not even seem like a contrivance that she should have been sent along; while it was true that she wound up having little to do, there's no way folks could have known that ahead of time. When they were deciding on resources to send along, there weren't any greater reasons to keep her in Ala Mhigo.

It's not so much that it was a contrivance to send her along for me, as it was that she was outshone by the other NPC's.

That might not matter, except that Stormblood is clearly intended to be her story, and yet she's remarkably passive through the entire middle chunk of it. If I'd been able to see Lyse doing leadery things in Othard, I might have been less taken aback by Conrad deciding she should be his successor.

I certainly did have misgivings at the end, when she was given command of the resistance - but I think that the folks in the story are also aware that she's not exactly ripe, yet. No one was expecting Conrad to die, and he HAD selected Lyse to take over.

Well, no one in the story. As soon as Conrad tells the WoL that he wants Lyse to succeed him, he might as well have killed himself, because he obviously wasn't going to last until the next dungeon. If Stormblood were a movie being cast 10 years ago, he'd totally be played by Liam Neeson, a la Qui-Gon. I know tropes exist for reasons, but that was really heavy handed, IMO.

[FJerome]

Setting aside discussion of Lyse for a moment, M'naago's inner monologue where she offhandedly dismisses the notion that liberated Ala Mhigo will be ruled by a king I felt was a very interesting and easily overlooked tidbit from this story. Sod that. We've had enough of kings. I doubt it's an uncommon sentiment, as the Mad King's reign was truly horrendous, by all accounts. Nevertheless, I guess at the back of my mind I fully expected that once Ala Mhigo was freed, they'd uncover some lost prince or princess and prop them up as ruler, and everything would be hunky dory. When I read this, however, it dawned on my how unlikely that was - and it also dawned on me that there's been nothing in the story so far to discuss just what they ARE planning to do in terms of a new government.

There's some NPCs in Rhalgr's Reach making side-commentary about if they want a monarchy or republic but, yes, it doesn't seem like something anyone's really discussed?

I'm hoping this is going to be a major theme in the 4.1 to 4.X story-line because Ala Mhigo was in the middle of a civil war when the Empire swooped in. The lack of any real discussion on what form of government they'd have post-liberation makes it feel like it's still an extremely fraught and sensitive question and that the monarchist and republican sides are both still nursing a lot of old resentments. Pushing the Garleans back out may have united them for a time but now that the Empire's gone all the old conflicts are still there, waiting to kick off again.

It'd also be an interesting narrative contrast with Doma, where Hien is widely adored by his people and has no rivals to the throne, so he's already in power and rebuilding the Enclave by the end of 4.0.

[Enkidoh]

There's some NPCs in Rhalgr's Reach making side-commentary about if they want a monarchy or republic but, yes, it doesn't seem like something anyone's really discussed?

I'm hoping this is going to be a major theme in the 4.1 to 4.X story-line because Ala Mhigo was in the middle of a civil war when the Empire swooped in.

Not to let Ala Mhigo entirely off the hook (given their well known history of belligerence), but the Ala Mhigan civil war and the atrocities committed by the King of Ruin was actually due to Garlean plotting - Gaius was the one responsible who realized attacking front on Eorzea's 'strongest and most technologically advanced' citystate was not going to end well for him, so he waited and schemed, stirring up trouble inside the city and feeding Theoduric's paranoia.

Gaius waited nearly ten years for the results of his plot to come to fruition, and they succeeded beyond his wildest dreams - fed up with Theoduric's tyranny the Ala Mhigan people overthrew him in a brief but violent coup, and Gaius pretty much then just marched in and took over (one account states that the Ala Mhigans actually welcomed the Garleans, although that is contradicted by other accounts that they quickly and violently occupied the nation and annexed it almost overnight).

This is also the origins and reasons why the Corpse Brigade have such a bad name, they are the remnants of Theoduric's personal guard, so they're held with outright contempt by even their own countrymen and women and are thus shunned by most of the refugees in Little Ala Mhigo, leading them to become bandits and outlaws.

As others have mentioned there were those in the Resistance who had begun to debate exactly how Ala Mhigo's new government should be formed after the city was liberated, but a democratic republic is probably the most likely outcome (as mentioned Wildergart is the only known surviving member of the Ala Mhigan royal family and he is not interested in claiming the throne, instead focusing on rebuilding the Fists of Rhalgr).

Given that Ishgard made the transition from an autocratic theocracy to a democratic parliamentary republic fairly easily, and that even Ul'dah is toying with the idea (or rather, Nanamo is), republicanism is probably where Ala Mhigo's future ultimately lies (a further hint towards that is that certain Echo scene where none less than the American Revolution is channeled ).

[FJerome]

Not to let Ala Mhigo entirely off the hook (given their well known history of belligerence), but the Ala Mhigan civil war and the atrocities committed by the King of Ruin was actually due to Garlean plotting - Gaius was the one responsible who realized attacking front on Eorzea's 'strongest and most technologically advanced' citystate was not going to end well for him, so he waited and schemed, stirring up trouble inside the city and feeding Theoduric's paranoia.

Naming no current real-world examples because that way lies trouble and flame-wars but it's not unusual for a foreign power to exploit internal divisions in a country for its own gain. Even if Gaius was fueling the situation, everyone's lingering resentment is still very real?

The Venn Diagram of "People who Just Put Up With Theoduric because He Was King and That's What You Do" vs "The Rebellion" pre-occupation and "People who Collaborated With the Empire" vs "The Resistance" post-occupation is probably pretty interesting.

[YianKutku]

This is also the origins and reasons why the Corpse Brigade have such a bad name, they are the remnants of Theoduric's personal guard, so they're held with outright contempt by even their own countrymen and women and are thus shunned by most of the refugees in Little Ala Mhigo, leading them to become bandits and outlaws.

There's even a bit of tension regarding the role of the Corpse Brigade now that the liberation of Ala Mhigo is in full swing. If you go back to Little Ala Mhigo before completing the SB story, Hremfing (the guy standing next to Gundobald) has a couple of lines:

It's all well and good that the Resistance is gaining new recruits, but we could do without the help of the Corpses.

I've not forgotten the crimes they committed in the name of the King of Ruin. Nor have any of the older generation. But these young ones, they're all too happy to let bygones be bygones...

Apart from that, there's also the crimes and atrocities the Corpse Brigade committed while as bandits in Thanalan, often against their fellow Ala Mhigans in Little Ala Mhigo. Thanks to the time bubble, this has happened less than a year ago, which makes me wonder about the "younger generation" line.

[Belhi]

Lyse has actively been a Scion for 6 years. This was for me the important detail from my character's perspective. My WoL, indeed any WoL, would have never met Yda. For all the false names, Lyse has been a comrade to the other Scions for a decent length of time at this point. Also remember that Lyse would have grown up knowing quite a few of them, if not well. She certainly would have known Y'shtola since Y'shtola was a close friend of the original Yda.

As Y'shtola says at the end, she is a comrade. She has long since earned her stripes in that regard.

[Rosenoire]

Lyse has actively been a Scion for 6 years. This was for me the important detail from my character's perspective. My WoL, indeed any WoL, would have never met Yda. For all the false names, Lyse has been a comrade to the other Scions for a decent length of time at this point. Also remember that Lyse would have grown up knowing quite a few of them, if not well. She certainly would have known Y'shtola since Y'shtola was a close friend of the original Yda.

As Y'shtola says at the end, she is a comrade. She has long since earned her stripes in that regard.

My Wol barely knew her, either as Lyse or Yda. I didn't play 1.0, and I started in Limsa. I may be forgetting something, but the only quest I can remember where Yda and Papylymo were the main Scion contact was the Sylphs, way back when I was level 25. My WoL has probably spoken with Urianger more than he did with Y&P. Of course, the fact that they're absent until late in 3.4 doesn't help. They're not there for all of the painful and triumphant moments that take place in Ishgard. Having Yda offstage for the majority of the Heavensward expansion made it even harder for me to care about the big reveal. The fact that Yda was really Lyse had no emotional punch because it just replaced one character I didn't know with one who was just as much of a cipher.

[Belhi]

The last known living member of the Royal Family is Wildergelt in the MNK quests who interestingly didn't realise he was and was horrified to find out. Without spoiling those quests its fair to say he has no interest in pursuing a claim.

One of the give things we will see being dealt with in the patches is what Ala Mhigo does now. The resistance we have been working with is only one of the resistance factions and even then there isn't one single unified opinion on what form of Governance Ala Mhigo should have. That is one of the reasons Conrad picked Lyse. She has traits that almost everyone involved will at least somewhat associate with, if only just being the daughter of a hero of the people. Further, she wants an Ala Mhigo which is inclusive of everyone, even people like Fordola who operated under imperial rule.

Compared to Doma, that has a clear transition of power, Ala Mhigo is a much more difficult case and likely we are going to have to way in a lot to keep things moving smoothly.

[Alleo]

LineageRazor: Well there is a certain "lost" prince of Ala Mhigo. And I really hope that he will play a bigger role in the main story. (Was kinda surprised to not even see him there) I also cant see Lyse as a leader of a nation and if they dont want a king anymore, then I cant see them letting one people rule alone.

I am going to put my answer about Ishgard beyond a spoiler because its a bit off topic:

I recently took an alt through Heavensward and in the aftermath of the failed protest at the Ishgardian peace summit the quest text outright states that the protesters lay dead or dying. A handful survived, but it should have been a much bigger deal that others did not when it was regular Ishgardians trying to put their point of view on the table and fight for what they believed in.

Yet Aymeric gets to sit comfortably in a cushy position of supreme leadership and the youngest heir of House Fortemps - despite being trigger happy during the protest - also later gets a position of prominence, albeit in Camp Dragonhead. I want the fallout of Ala Mhigo's liberation to be messy and if there is any blood on the hands of the protagonists then I want there to be lasting consequences. I want them to lie awake at night, unable to sleep. Not giggling with joy and drinking wine whenever the Warrior of Light happens to come and visit them.

They did not just protest...the barmaid went to us, poisoned us and after that they went onwards to stop the peace meeting from happening by fighting armed against the soldiers. They were intending to kill the others and stop peace from happening. Saying that they just wanted to be heard is really downplaying what they wanted to try. Haurchefants younger brother overreacted at that situation and ordered an attack on the speaking barmaid which was shown to be frowned upon. Yet even after all she did, the barmaid was not imprisoned for the rest of her life for the stunt she tried to pull.

So it was not Aymerics fault that this happened and he even forgave those that survived, even though this could have been the end of all the peace talk and could have meant further ongoing war.

The youngest heir overreacted in that situation but learned from this and matured thus why he got the job.

Please stop painting all the others in a bad light in a situation that was truly not something harmless. These rebells wanted no peace, they did not want to live a life together with the dragons (which is kinda understandable after all they went through but does not change the results) and thus tried to go against it with weapons. If they had stood there with no weapons and only talked about this then yes them being killed would be too much. But they were ready to take other peoples lives (and might even have done so) thus they needed to be put down. The youngest Fortemp brother was overreacting but this was shown as a mistake in the game.

So you want good people that tried their best by freeing their home nation and also tried to solve stuff without blood to be haunted by a mistake for a long time? Wow thats harsh.

[Belhi]

LineageRazor: Well there is a certain "lost" prince of Ala Mhigo. And I really hope that he will play a bigger role in the main story. (Was kinda surprised to not even see him there) I also cant see Lyse as a leader of a nation and if they dont want a king anymore, then I cant see them letting one people rule alone.

I am going to put my answer about Ishgard beyond a spoiler because its a bit off topic:

They did not just protest...the barmaid went to us, poisoned us and after that they went onwards to stop the peace meeting from happening by fighting armed against the soldiers. They were intending to kill the others and stop peace from happening. Saying that they just wanted to be heard is really downplaying what they wanted to try. Haurchefants younger brother overreacted at that situation and ordered an attack on the speaking barmaid which was shown to be frowned upon. Yet even after all she did, the barmaid was not imprisoned for the rest of her life for the stunt she tried to pull.

So it was not Aymerics fault that this happened and he even forgave those that survived, even though this could have been the end of all the peace talk and could have meant further ongoing war.

The youngest heir overreacted in that situation but learned from this and matured thus why he got the job.

Please stop painting all the others in a bad light in a situation that was truly not something harmless. These rebells wanted no peace, they did not want to live a life together with the dragons (which is kinda understandable after all they went through but does not change the results) and thus tried to go against it with weapons. If they had stood there with no weapons and only talked about this then yes them being killed would be too much. But they were ready to take other peoples lives (and might even have done so) thus they needed to be put down. The youngest Fortemp brother was overreacting but this was shown as a mistake in the game.

So you want good people that tried their best by freeing their home nation and also tried to solve stuff without blood to be haunted by a mistake for a long time? Wow thats harsh.

I did mention earlier but this is addressed in the MNK quests and he has no interest in the throne. His goals are to revive the Fist of Rhalgr and help rebuild the spiritual institutions the Garleans destroyed as well as creating a Fist dedicated to providing hope and protection of the Ala Mhigans. I think its unlikely we will see him in the MSQ outside maybe a cameo.

Ala Mhigo is a very different situation to Ishgard. Ishgard, while it underwent rapid political change, had the structures in place to guide the transition. Fundimentally the governance has changed but its been adapted around the existing power structures, drawing power away from the church and giving the commoners a say. Ala Mhigo has no such unified structure to work with the Resistance is a myriad of independent groups and on top of them there are the various settlements and the independent factions like the Ananta and the Seeker tribes. That's a lot of pieces to try and build something unified out of.

I don't think Lyse is a great leader from a thinking but she is honest, open minded, passionate and inclusive. She has a vision of a united Ala Mhigo that all can belong to. In a situation where you have so many different groups that is something extremely important. You need someone who can provide a idea and a vision that all parties can get invested in. Yeah she needs advisors but at the end of the day Ala Mhigo needs a unifying symbol as much as they need a thinker, perhaps more so.