Tales from the Storm Discussion

[Rosenoire]

This is literally the first time we've ever seen any of the characters in question discuss romance. There are also plenty of other conversations between women and women alone that have nothing to do with men, such as a conversation between Merlwyb, Kan-E-Senna, and Nanamo sometime during 2.x (2.4, if I remember right) about politics. I don't see the need for getting so worked up over this short story.

I'm not particularly "worked up" about it, but I did roll my eyes, because of course the story that has all the women together has them gossiping about guys. I mean, if my sister had almost died, the first thing I'd think of saying to her is that she should hook up with someone. And of course, if someone says "this made me uncomfortable", then they're getting "worked up". Hysterical, even.

[Cilia]

---

Cliche? Yes.

Offensive? Only if you want it to be.

You're exaggerating what I said, or ignoring the spirit of what I meant to get your point across. This "not passing the Bechdel test" can make people uncomfortable, but sometimes women will discuss romance in fiction, Bechdel test be damned. There's nothing wrong with that and it's not a constant or defining trait of any of the characters in the story. I see no need for controversy over this.

[PArcher]

I liked this story because it was mostly fluff; nothing really new (sure we'll be introduced to this man Lyse talks about in 4.1), nothing terribly important, just the girls talking and relaxing.

Its a nice change of pace, and shows that they aren't 100% about their work. Which is really nice to see.

[Lunafreya]

I hope Lyse haters can read this story.

[Lutefisk]

Call me cynical but I think our unnamed historian does not think very highly of Lyse. If he really were crushing on her he'd be trying to avoid her gaze instead of looking right past her and that even Lyse has picked up on this habit of his implies that he's not attempting to hide his feelings.

In any case I reckon someone who knows the ins and outs of the political landscape of Gyr Abania is going to become a key player in the future. I hope we'll be seeing him in the MSQ soon.

[Enkidoh]

Call me cynical but I think our unnamed historian does not think very highly of Lyse. If he really were crushing on her he'd be trying to avoid her gaze instead of looking right past her and that even Lyse has picked up on this habit of his implies that he's not attempting to hide his feelings.

In any case I reckon someone who knows the ins and outs of the political landscape of Gyr Abania is going to become a key player in the future. I hope we'll be seeing him in the MSQ soon.

Calling it now: it's Erik.

[Mysterysword]

Being a strong female character and being defined solely by their relationships with male characters is not mutually exclusive. Lyse is given an automatic boost to commander of the Resistance because of who her father was, even considering that she doesn't have that many great leadership qualities. I don't think Minfilia was a very well-written character, but I'll still say that she was a better leader than I expect Lyse will be.

Yes, I am seriously saying that there are women who chat at length about things that have nothing to do with romance. Here's a short summary of things I've talked about recently with one of my female friends:

- Wholemeal cinnamon rolls are a terrible lie.
- Never buy gluten-free cake, especially at $6 a slice.
- NieR: Automata sure looks awesome, but it sucks that we can't afford it at $100+ on Steam.
- Awful customers at our past/present jobs.
- University applications.

Note how none of that even remotely involved romantic prospects, because we couldn't care less about it if we were paid to do so. There are plenty of things they could've talked about, without defaulting to romance.

[Cilia]

Yes, I am seriously saying that there are women who chat at length about things that have nothing to do with romance.

Real people acknowledge this because they don't live in pieces of fiction.

I and several other people have pointed out this is literally the first time the characters in question have discussed romance ever. I acknowledge there was no need for them to do so and there are a great many other things they could have discussed, but what was so wrong about the topic drifting to romance?

[Mysterysword]

what was so wrong about the topic drifting to romance?

Because it's irritating as all hell that people believe that all small talk between women should involve or default to romance. Let me ask the opposite question: why did the topic have to drift to romance? Why couldn't they have stayed away from it?

[Belhi]

Being a strong female character and being defined solely by their relationships with male characters is not mutually exclusive. Lyse is given an automatic boost to commander of the Resistance because of who her father was, even considering that she doesn't have that many great leadership qualities. I don't think Minfilia was a very well-written character, but I'll still say that she was a better leader than I expect Lyse will be.

Yes, I am seriously saying that there are women who chat at length about things that have nothing to do with romance. Here's a short summary of things I've talked about recently with one of my female friends:

- Wholemeal cinnamon rolls are a terrible lie.
- Never buy gluten-free cake, especially at $6 a slice.
- NieR: Automata sure looks awesome, but it sucks that we can't afford it at $100+ on Steam.
- Awful customers at our past/present jobs.
- University applications.

Note how none of that even remotely involved romantic prospects, because we couldn't care less about it if we were paid to do so. There are plenty of things they could've talked about, without defaulting to romance.

Conrad specifically states that the reason he picked Lyse wasn't due to her father but due to the fact that with such a massively diverse group of people involved in the fight for Ala Mhigo, it required someone who could both appeal to and understand the viewpoint of a very broad range of individuals and inspire them to follow her vision. Conrad specifically gives you a quest to go talk to people to show you this right before mentioning he is thinking about Lyse. Lyse isn't hugely smart but she is capable of delegating and most importantly she is a figurehead who's only agenda is to build an Ala Mhigo inclusive of everyone. She doesn't need to be smart. She just needs to know who to ask for advice, who to put in charge of what and be able to convince people to follow her goals. In fact a good part of Lyse's story is that she is her own person, capable as herself, rather than just her father's daughter and her sister's sister.

Secondly my comment wasn't that women always talk about romance but that they occasionally do. Frankly I think everyone discusses their relationships to some extent from time to time, if only to vent. Lets be clear here. This is by far not all these women talk about. We almost never here them talking about relationships. More to the point its not all they talk about. You talk like relationships are a taboo topic that people must avoid.

Out of curiosity, what would you have them talk about? The weather? The food? Complaining about dumb book cataloguing systems? Poor toiletry facilities in Rhalgr's Reach? The impractical nature of spiky armour?

Honestly I think your projecting a bit here. You seem to be the only one making the assumption this is all they talk about, that this is somehow the encompassing defining of their characters. Characters as with people can have relationships without it robbing them of independence of identity or self definition. Y'shtola and Lyse are frankly far more defined by their relationships with their mentor and their sister respectively than any of the male characters and even then they stand on their own pretty well.

To be honest this is probably not the forum for discussing the intent or effect of the writer having the characters discuss romance since it fundamentally isn't really a lore issue so I will drop the subject and agree to disagree.