A talent system

[Umbeliel]

Horizontal progression please. +1 OP

snip

A strawman that winds up also being an actual common failing of games. Just because it's often poorly implemented doesn't mean it has no potential.
Beyond that we'd get the argument that there's always one "best" way to play- this is most likely true and in reality, is perfectly fine. The meta will always be the meta and there's nothing actually wrong with that. Those of us NOT in the meta are not affected (directly) by playing the game in non-meta ways, as long as it remains not as a hindrance to our parties.

That being said, I'd actually be happier if they did botha spec system of some sort and reduced button bloat in a more... logical way.

There never was, isn't, and never will be any good reason for basic combo actions(Heavy Swing -> Skull Sunder -> Butcher's Block) to be learned separately and have three different buttons. Branching combos can work just fine, as shown with the pvp changes. Many CDs are completely superfluous(why does Bulwark even exist? It serves the same purpose as Sheltron except it's unreliable.) and could pretty easily be made completely irrelevant with buffed versions of other skills that already exist. There's really no good reason why we don't have our entire basic kit being learned by like, 50(looking at you drk) and everything after that being utility or spec points or something.

[Eli85]

Snip.

The problem is we have seen talent-like systems emerge in almost every game over the history of the genre. In every single instance it is: if you don't choose X then you are doing less output (and output is essentially the only thing that matters). The only time it doesn't matter is when an entire line is say, survivability or utility, but that always comes down to "this gives you the most survivbility so take it" or "for this fight this utility is better so take it." It's so bland and boring.

As for the meta? I think all players should care about it. I PUG a lot. My problem, I know. It's because of my schedule. Anyway, I rather take the choice OUT of the individual players hand if they conform to the meta or not. Just want them in the meta anyway. Gives a greater chance of more successful groups and less trolling / griefing (lol nub you aren't picking the best talent choices, /kick).

[Umbeliel]

snippity snip

And that's totally fine and cool and good! We are friends here and you have my support- I'm just saying that if you don't want non meta people you can just make your own pf to exclude non meta people. Recruit people with specific specs.

The same way that non-meta people now(and, in most cases) wind up having to make their own friend circle or their own parties to do anything, because the meta is generally the norm.

That is, again, assuming squenix themselves completely fail to establish a rough balance with individual specs in the first place.