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Thread: A talent system

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  1. #1
    Player
    Kazrah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    1,464
    Character
    Nonni Brilante
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 60
    Problem with this is that this usually results in cookie cutter builds, where players are going to want to know the absolute best options and then completely forgo the rest of them. If WoW can't even perfect this system to prevent that issue (after having many years to do that), why bother implementing it here? Not to mention the issue of maintenance and constantly having to tweak them so that they're equally viable, and the only reason WoW still does it is because of how their class system works since it's nothing like the job system of this game.

    That being said though, the reason why this is an issue is because jobs are ONLY tested at 70 and not really tested for any point in the leveling process just because it would be far too time-consuming for testers at this point. it seems more like the issue could be addressed for now simply by rearranging when specific abilities are learned based on a priority system revolving around what abilities are used most often. Switch Blackest Night with a somewhat-powerful low-level ability that's not used as often (or just nerf it into oblivion because no single ability should completely make or break a job). Rearrange MCH skills so Cooldown comes earlier and the Heat resource system would make a bit more sense earlier in leveling.

    In the MUCH longer run though, I could see something like this happening in the form of predominantly traits for skills and abilities that don't have them currently and then one final, powerful action at the end level of an expansion.
    (18)

  2. #2
    Player
    Rymm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    901
    Character
    Rymmrael Bhaldraelwyn
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazrah View Post
    Problem with this is that this usually results in cookie cutter builds, where players are going to want to know the absolute best options and then completely forgo the rest of them.
    The OP makes a pretty good argument, I'll give him that, but Kazrah pretty much hit the nail on the head with this entire post as to why I wouldn't support such a system.
    +1 for him

    Talents, like the attribute points that recently went the way of the dinosaurs, are largely nothing more than the illusion of choice. The vast majority of players will simply google the "best" build and copy and paste that onto their character. Anything else and you are hindering yourself for the sake of being different and, by extension, hindering whatever party you join for group content. I'm perfectly aware that not every player (myself included) plays 100% optimally 100% of the time and I would never expect them to but, depending on how more or less balanced talents are, picking a sub-optimal option is shooting yourself in the foot before you even step into a dungeon or trial. Like not melding your gear or bothering to invest in food or potions- sure you can probably still succeed without it, but it would certainly be easier and increase your chances for success to do so with.

    It also opens up the door to the type of elitism where people who use the "best" builds exclude (or worse, harass) those who do not. This is attitude is already pretty rampant in the game already in regards toward optimal classes in each role and which gear and melds they use. I would like to think that we as a playerbase could rise above it, but my above examples have already proven that patently false. A "This is why we can't have nice things." kind of argument.

    In a perfect world, where they actually manage to perfectly balance all of the talents across all of the jobs, I would be less opposed to a talent system. Sadly, I have never once seen that happen in any of the various MMOs I have played over the years. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I'm not going to hold my breath, either. Often times, when devs have managed to bring them within a reasonable margin of each other, the end product talents are either so homogeneous or have so little influence over actual play that there really is no point to them when all is said and done.

    In the end, I would rather the devs work trying to achieve better balance between the jobs as they are now and smooth out the leveling process for them than throw the whole system into chaos by trying to overhaul it (again) with the addition of talents. People are citing WoW as an example of a good talent system (which as an old WoW player, is actually pretty hilarious to me) but it took Blizz years of reworking and polishing their system to approach anything even resembling balance. I shudder to imagine the hot mess that FF14 would be if they tried to shoe-horn talents onto our jobs at this stage in the game.

    TL;DR-
    I don't think talents are inherently bad but I have absolutely no faith whatsoever in the devs being able to make meaningful talent choices that are perfectly (or even reasonably) balanced across all the jobs and therefore can't support taking resources from other aspects of development or throwing the game into disarray for however many years of developing, reworking, and polishing it may take them to get it even decent, let alone "right."
    (12)
    Last edited by Rymm; 08-05-2017 at 06:27 AM.

  3. #3
    Player
    thegreatonemal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Gridinia
    Posts
    679
    Character
    Malcolm Varanidae
    World
    Marilith
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazrah View Post
    snip
    They are tested below as well you are just looking at it from the perspective of what the class lost at 60 what is irrelevant to balance the classes are different now what you played for two years no longer exists. Look at what each of the jobs roles are at 60 and compare them among each other not to what you used to know but to what they are now.
    (0)