Who else is bored? Same Content and Formula...Was SB a waste of money?

[Niraves]

Only way I'd go back to WoW is if they got rid of the insane AP grind. Artifact weapons and the AP grind really put me off WoW and the only saving grace was playing with my friends there, who eventually quit and then so did I.

Not even considering going back to WoW, I'm with you there. The Artifact and RNG Legendaries put me off Legion entirely. I'm more or less considering giving up the MMO genre for good. There has to be something better around, its just a matter of finding it.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Actually yes the person that can play 10h+ a day should be rewarded more and be ahead of others. That is kind of the way the world works if you hadn't figured that out yet. You can put in 40 hours at your job and get payed the minimum for your position and not be considered for high value promotions. Or you can work 80 and be payed on the high end of the scale and be far more valued for promotions into management and leadership. Put in more effort and get more rewards, that is the very basis of our society today.

This philosophy doesn't work in today's market. The largest gaming demographic average between 25-35, who typically have full time jobs. You will not attract this audience by and large if they are forever behind due to their real life obligations. Why do you think virtually every game has championed accessibility as top priority? They want your money. It's why WoW has progressively gotten easier, why Overwatch designed its loot system to be little more than aesthetics and collectibles, why nearly every 3rd shooter focuses on gameplay over stat progression. One of the first things people ridicule a game over is whether it has stats in its player competitive modes. A system that always people with limitless time to get ahead only hurts the bottom line long term as it makes the casual playerbase feel they have no chance of catching up. And at the end of the day, video games are a business first. What makes a profit is what they will do.

[Snow_Princess]

This philosophy doesn't work in today's market. The largest gaming demographic average between 25-35, who typically have full time jobs. You will not attract this audience by and large if they are forever behind due to their real life obligations. Why do you think virtually every game has championed accessibility as top priority?They want your money. It's why WoW has progressively gotten easier, why Overwatch designed its loot system to be little more than aesthetics and collectibles, why nearly every 3rd shooter focuses on gameplay over stat progression. One of the first things people ridicule a game over is whether it has stats in its player competitive modes. A system that always people with limitless time to get ahead only hurts the bottom line long term as it makes the casual playerbase feel they have no chance of catching up. And at the end of the day, video games are a business first. What makes a profit is what they will do.

That has not how things work, no one cares if someone has more then someone else, that is not how it works. There will always be someone with more then you.

What is infuriating is you missing a day or week and you can never make that up, and that resentment lingers. I disagree with "This philosophy doesn't work in today's market" So for the bold, you are defeating your own argument, if it is a reference to weekly caps. People want to do things on their own time, not feeling an oblation to log in every day or be behind forever.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

That has not how things work, no one cares if someone has more then someone else, that is not how it works. There will always be someone with more then you.

So you wouldn't care about queueing into a game and being destroyed with no chance to fight back because you don't have time to play all day everyday? That's kinda what you're asking for here.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

That has not how things work, no one cares if someone has more then someone else, that is not how it works. There will always be someone with more then you.
What is infuriating is you missing a day or week and you can never make that up, and that resentment lingers. I disagree with "This philosophy doesn't work in today's market" So for the bold, you are defeating your own argument, if it is a reference to weekly caps.

... you can't even go a sentence contradicting yourself. First and foremost, tomestones are not comparable because they are restricted. You can play as little as two hours or twenty each week and you'll cap, provided you choose the right content. On the chance you do miss a week(s) along the way, you'll have alternative options through Savage raiding and odd numbered patches. The person I quoted cites a system where you'll never catch up unless the person ahead of you stops grinding. They are able to play longer and due to unrestricted progression will always be ahead of you. Currently, someone can be more skilled but XIV prevents any one player from obtaining a long term advantage over another. It advertises itself on that very premise. Most games do because yes, people do care. Overwatch wouldn't be as insanely popular if someone who started a year ago could trounce everyone by virtue of having played longer and nothing else. That is one of the reasons For Honor flopped. Excluding its horrendous servers, someone who played longer or sent more money would utterly destroy everyone else. Very few people find that fun.

[Berethos]

players on Twitch.

Not sure this is a great metric, for a couple of reasons.

Some of the post-launch streams in the first month were sponsored streams (even for some that already actively play the game), which means there were more streams to be watched. Viewership at the start of a game or expansion tends to be at its highest, especially as the viewers watch to see the initial experiences or reactions. Once both of those begin to taper off and the FFXIV stream returns a more general day to day activity, viewership is absolutely going to drop off...

And this has nothing to do with whether the game has too little or too much content.

Throw in that some streamers that do FFXIV also stream other games, and once the expansion rush is over they tend to pick up with those more, and you have the far more likely reason behind the viewer drop off than the game doing the "same old same old."

[Krotoan]

That has not how things work, no one cares if someone has more then someone else, that is not how it works...

except for all those threads where people are asking for certain items to be limited /not available past certain times or not change the reqs for a hunt mount because then it won't be special.. or asking that dyeing be limited to savage gear only so that it's special.

people LOVE having things that other people don't and others WILL complain if they see that someone else has something they can't get.
You are very passionate about what you believe in (or what your sister believes in.. I'm not sure who is currently at the helm) , I admire that. But please don't state things that are obviously untrue.

Companies ARE constantly showing that "hey come play our game! you can play casual and still be competitive!" as a selling point. Even Wildstar , who advertised "true hardcore MMO playstyle" has toned it down a LOT to survive. The primary customer for online games has less time and more money nowadays, and gaming companies are smart to tap into that. ..

[Snow_Princess]

So you wouldn't care about queueing into a game and being destroyed with no chance to fight back because you don't have time to play all day everyday? That's kinda what you're asking for here.

... you can't even go a sentence contradicting yourself. First and foremost, tomestones are not comparable because they are restricted. You can play as little as two hours or twenty each week and you'll cap, provided you choose the right content. On the chance you do miss a week(s) along the way, you'll have alternative options through Savage raiding and odd numbered patches. The person I quoted cites a system where you'll never catch up unless the person ahead of you stops grinding. They are able to play longer and due to unrestricted progression will always be ahead of you. Currently, someone can be more skilled but XIV prevents any one player from obtaining a long term advantage over another. It advertises itself on that very premise. Most games do because yes, people do care. Overwatch wouldn't be as insanely popular if someone who started a year ago could trounce everyone by virtue of having played longer and nothing else. That is one of the reasons For Honor flopped. Excluding its horrendous servers, someone who played longer or sent more money would utterly destroy everyone else. Very few people find that fun.

And you are wrong because once you have the best.. that is it? People will get whatever they need on their own time. I talk often in DF, read the novice chat and so on. People do not care about gear at all unless it is some ilevel gate, gating them from access. Most people do not care about "being destroyed", and the thing is, PvP is not gear dependent at all. Everyone has the same, regardless of gear, regardless if level 30 or level 70.

The only time gear is ever discussed is when someone has some off the wall extreme low level gear where it is notable by HP/ eyeballing low performance. I see more harassment over DPS values then the gear itself (because the gear is not the cause) like warriors doing more DPS then DPS classes, or healers pre SB (No idea if this is a thing now, I think the game is changed too much to give the opportunity, but I have not seen it.)

Overwatch is not a MNO, and I have no clue on that game regardless, so off the point. People may care in that game, I do not know, but people do not care in this one, past how hard or easy it is to access something (if you where unlucky early HW, it was hard to continue the MSQ for example, I can see SB will not share the same problems, because the job quest line gives you 290 gear while you get 288 gear guaranteed to you as drops, once a run, something that did not happen trying to break that i150 line back then. Slowing access does nothing other then frustrates those that care more about their performance, the average player of FFXIV does not, unless it is salvage. I met ONE person asking another for parse numbers in a lore farm, and I was changing between BLM and WHM trying to figure out what would move runs the fastest. The person was trying but unlikely did not know rotations or something. In the end their healer could not dps as well as I could and their DPS could not DPS as much as my BLM. I think I just continued the farm as WHM since my healer DPS was much better then near zero. Gear was not a factor and it rarely is when people have discuessions like this in DFs. THe only other time gear has somewhat an impact outsude exteme undergearing is when the tank is at min ilevel entry while trying to hold off hate of BIS DPS. It is possable but you really need to know what you are doing, and what place and time this happens in also matter. For example, a 290 tank would have more problems now if they face a mix of 320/330/340 (not sure what is highest possible) then compared a 290 tank vs 314~ ish dps back before 4.05

In those situations, there was never deweling on the gear itself, it was either the tank apologizing on the performance (most min level entry tanks are not exerts at play to being with, since they tend to be newer to be in that situation to begin with) or they are toxic and demand the DPS to hold back. Once I was with a decent geared tank kicked out by a premade duo over "pressing too much buttons" when I would steal hate 10 seconds after my quelling opener. I think you have a personal issue with people "gearing too fast" vs what the average player feels. If you want to go back to level 50, 2.0, i came in that game late and was kicked repeatly when I keep saying you need to make smaller pulls because I do not over gear (120) the place yet. Even then they still expected me to perform like I had GATED TIME GEAR, even though I couldn't from not be 50 long enough. That is the only time I seen a form of mocking of gear, along with seeing i270 required in pfs for simple things in HW.

People in this game for the most part only care about gear ilevel for access, they do not care if someone has more then them, or the rate they do it as far as gear, so based playing since this game 2.0 opening and all the times I stepped in the duty finder, talking to people, I find your premise false. People care about having minions, glam, and mounts more then having the best ilevel gear along with how to meld it.

I just had this convo with someone:
(shout) To be fair some of the XI stuff would be a nice addition to this game
Me (tell): your suggesting this game needs more content like ffxi offered many things to do yes?
(tell reply)> and a higher challenge rfor endgame serious raids yes

There isn't enough content in this game.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

Snip.

All the loot boxes give in OW is glamour, that's it. And just going to point it out, but your anecdote is just further proof that uncapping tomes is the worst thing they can do. You think it was bad then? Imagine how bad it would be and how quickly now if tomes weren't reasonably gated.

[Shurrikhan]

Only way I'd go back to WoW is if they got rid of the insane AP grind. Artifact weapons and the AP grind really put me off WoW and the only saving grace was playing with my friends there, who eventually quit and then so did I.

To me the AP grind is actually very close to being a great thing. Ideally, something like that should give limitless time to do something that contributes to your character, but at a massively tapering rate so that casuals can have very nearly the same outputs. My issue with it was its effect on alts, which has never been handled even-handedly, even if it saw massive improvements in patch 7.25. Research should have been at least largely and automatically account-wide from the beginning, and spending on one spec's artifact should have reduced costs on the others'. Had it all just been handled more consistently and formulaicly, rather than seeing arbitrary fix-up changes every few patches, I'd have actually been quite happy with the Artifact system.

I'd actually tossed around similar ideas with friends concerning a Legend/Prestige system, partly categorical, partly general, partly job-based, partly discipline-wide, that has no actual gates or caps but just tapers the relative gains made in order to keep the maximum passive outputs of any given players of various durations of play or varying play efficiency close enough generally and for the contents they're participating in.

Oddly enough, 1.x already had this, in a way, save that it didn't allow you to use time played to increase the efficiency floor, making it unfair for players playing at extended rates but with interest in only one job—e.g. in maximal output or vertical gearing. It was called the fatigue system. Again, a system ruined by one aspect of oversight, which otherwise got more right than wrong, given the selling points of the game.