Black Mage Raise Ability

[PrismaticDaybreak]

blorp

Yeah, let's tone RDM down because of 1 niche situation! That makes total sense. Let's nerf BLMs damage too since I saw a Fire 4 do 30k damage once. And let's also nerf SMNs Bahamut because it looks pretty cool.

[Aarik]

First off, I cannot even begin to fathom a Black Mage raising someone....that's like duct-taping a first-aid kit onto a nuke. That being said, I do agree that BLM is far less desirable in raid situations due to it's utter lack of utility. While I'm not sure if anything can be done during this expansion, it's not a bad idea to throw out ideas for BLM abilities for the next one....that make sense.

It is ironic that while in reality, BLM is probably the 'greediest' of classes (bringing the least utility/help to other party members), in lore and quests BLMs (or at least the ones we associate with) are probably some of the most selfless people that exist. They willingly take the void into themselves, letting it redefine their being...and the price they pay is a high one; ostracized by society and looked upon as a villain, all the while having to balance between controlling how much they 'let loose'. Yet Black Mages are the best defense against denizens of the void due to their affinity with it...fighting fire with fire, if you will.

With this is mind, I would like to suggest an ability for the next expansion that brings both utility to BLM while also staying true to it's roots. The name can be whatever you want, but for ease of memory I would call it "Overchannel". The name says it all; when activated, the ability would last for anywhere from 10/15 seconds, during which the potency of all of your spells double....yes double. HOWEVER, there is a catch; once overchannel ends, you are instantly knocked out. In addition, overchannel cannot be dispelled or cancelled; once you use it, you're going down no matter what. Furthermore, upon being raised, you are at withered status (double-ko status) instead of just weakened; to remove this, you can either wait the timer out, or you can be 'raised' again.

The nature of the ability would fit perfectly with BLM's nature to sacrifice more of themselves for more power; you would essentially be opening the floodgates to let the void consume you; it can even have a neat visual appearance; your flesh completely overtaken by a roiling black mist with only two glaring yellow dots in place of your eyes (yes the classical BLM look)...but having so much void flowing through a body is deadly, and thus you pay the price for your temporary power boost.

This ability would obviously be a double-edged sword, but has it's uses; heavy-dps burst-phases in raids could see this ability put to good use if timed well, pushing the raid past a hard-to-pass barrier, while also having to deal with a 'burned-out' BLM afterwards for a short bit.

Just a bit of an idea, but I think it could give BLM some utility (through immense burst-damage), while not destroying the utility of it's fellow magi. Thoughts?

[Ceallach]

Things were said.

Maybe, but you also still have to pay attention to the lore. Red mages are jacks of all trades, so it makes sense for us to have Verraise. Summoners have had healing summons in past titles, so having a summoner be capable of healing without being super good at it does still fit, so Physick is okay lore-wise.

Black mages NEVER heal. Ever. They get debuffs and damage spells and THAT'S IT. They should not ever get their own Raise in this game or any other. It's a blatant slap to the lore's face. That's the main point for me, considering that's what this thread's about.

Now, as far as red mages being "too strong," maybe. I don't feel that way. I don't have the raw numbers to back up my side, but I also acknowledge it's just my opinion that red mages are fine.

[Kabooa]

Just a bit of an idea, but I think it could give BLM some utility (through immense burst-damage), while not destroying the utility of it's fellow magi. Thoughts?

Damage isn't utility.

Mana song, TP song, movement bonuses, CC immunity, shifting burden / cost, those are utility.

[dinnertime]

Now, as far as red mages being "too strong," maybe. I don't feel that way. I don't have the raw numbers to back up my side, but I also acknowledge it's just my opinion that red mages are fine.

They are fine. They're supposed do the least damage out of the 3 casters. Justified since they have 2 really useful utilities for progression and only expected for progression.

Also I don't think Dualcasted Verraise is too strong either. It's just useful during progression where you'll expect a lot of mistakes since people are still learning. It's not really a big deal.

[VitalSuit]

Just a bit of an idea, but I think it could give BLM some utility (through immense burst-damage), while not destroying the utility of it's fellow magi. Thoughts?

In no way would 10 seconds of double damage be worth having the Brink of Death debuff for 2 minutes + the dps downtime of having to be raised + the mana cost of the raise.

[aleph_null]

They are fine. They're supposed do the least damage out of the 3 casters. Justified since they have 2 really useful utilities for progression and only expected for progression.

Also I don't think Dualcasted Verraise is too strong either. It's just useful during progression where you'll expect a lot of mistakes since people are still learning. It's not really a big deal.

It's really powerful for prog though. My group's rdm who switched to mch will definitely go back to rdm for the new contents in 4.1. I agree with the post in the previous page comparing the situation to war in 3.x. Right now not bringing rdm for prog is arguably as big of a handicap as not bringing a war in 3.x.

[Transient_Shadow]

Honestly I don't think even Summoners should have raise. It just feels wrong. Disciplines dedicated towards killing really shouldn't have the capacity to give life. I can understand Red Mage and Arcanist having this skill because their focused on either balance or strategy (which was kind of gutted for archanist in sb when the removed the debuffs attached to their spells)

But the very idea of blm getting a raise is quite silly. They're magic is partly burial rights (focused on laying the dead to rest) and Necromancy has been established to be a bastardization of life.

[Rawrz]

Honestly I don't think even Summoners should have raise. It just feels wrong. Disciplines dedicated towards killing really shouldn't have the capacity to give life. I can understand Red Mage and Arcanist having this skill because their focused on either balance or strategy (which was kind of gutted for archanist in sb when the removed the debuffs attached to their spells)

But the very idea of blm getting a raise is quite silly. They're magic is partly burial rights (focused on laying the dead to rest) and Necromancy has been established to be a bastardization of life.

Raise spells are bring back from unconsciousness spells, not literally resurrect from the dead. The same capacity SMN has for access to physick, basic Arcane Geometry from their ACN roots, is why resurrection works. Its not like resurrection puts you back in great health. You are literally on the verge or brink of death.

But again, be glad BLMS don't have a raise spell or you know, they would be expected to raise, instead of juggling their enochian timer. If black mage ever did get utility, I feel it would have something to do with an enhanced MP regen for party members. Like mana shift on steroids. Something like granting a party member Umbral Ice for a short time, while you're in umbral ice. (No effect on those currently in Astral Fire. :P)

[Lambdafish]

Yeah, let's tone RDM down because of 1 niche situation! That makes total sense. Let's nerf BLMs damage too since I saw a Fire 4 do 30k damage once. And let's also nerf SMNs Bahamut because it looks pretty cool.

Lol, you act like I was asking to remove the ability and cripple RDM as a whole, I asked for its mana cost to be looked at so that a raise takes, for example, just under half MP (as it should on any DPS role IMO)

Also... how is the difference between a guaranteed wipe and simple save a "niche situation"? (Aleph summed that up pretty well above)

Maybe, but you also still have to pay attention to the lore. Red mages are jacks of all trades, so it makes sense for us to have Verraise.

Lore should never be a justification for, or be thought of before mechanical imbalance, having said that though, I NEVER asked for verraise to be removed, or even changed mechanically, all I asked was for its mana cost to be looked at.

Totally agree with you about BLM, but I feel it could be better described as job identity than lore. BLM has a solid identity and a raise spell would go against that, RDM also has a solid identity, but certain aspects overstep the confines of the job system IMO (and can be easily fixed without touching the mechanics themselves I will reiterate)