Revamp Summoner idea

[IveraIvalice]

@everyone saying all summons need to be useful...

Let's say you summon Garuda and use her signature attack, the enemy becomes "Turbulent " (Air aspected 30sec DoT) therefore increasing Earth based attacks by 200% for single targets (Titan).
OR
Summon Ramuh for 150% damage but it's an aoe around the "Turbulent" target.

Basically Fire>Ice>Wind>Earth>Lightning>Water is a 200% single target rotation and Fire>Wind>Lightning is 150% aoe rotation
Ice>Water>Earth is a utility rotation.
Every time an element is hit by its affinity a dreadwyrm thing fills. Bahamuts* Actions deal 300% damage.
Only reason the % is so high is because it takes longer to summon them.

I like this idea it seems like a cool way to play, I think I still prefer building bars leads to a filled crystal to progress on the bahamut though. That would be that once a bar is filled, the Crystal becomes charged for that element even if you use up that bar to summon, the Crystal is still charged. But the way you fill up to bahamut isn't bad either so both seem cool to me. I just like the idea of crystals since that's a very ff thing and reminds me of having all elements confined and then combined to summon the big guy.

I do really like the idea of an elemental vulnerability being applied to the spells the summoner does or the attacks the summon does since elemental weakness was a cool strategy in standard ff games that was not a thing in this game and that kinda makes it come back in a cool way that works in this game, for this job at least

[Karshan]

Or for exemple :

Have a neutral set of spells : the 4 ruins, that serve as a regen phase (Ruin 3 becomes AOE, Ruin 4 takes place of 2 with level trait)

Have summon cost half the MP it actually does, and the cast time of a normal spell (btw that would also reduce death punishment a bit).

Have a combo set of 3 spells stronger each time (like 120 > 180 > 240)
- When Garuda-Egi is active, the combo is 3 wind spells, last one drops for exemple a magic vulnerability effect for 24 sec on boss and when you complete third combo, you can summon Demi Garuda for 12 seconds (and use the ruins during her presence) that ends with a 300 potency attack or equivalent
- With Ifrit-Egi, the 3 spells become fire (the same way warrior skills change you know), last one drops physic vulne, Demi Ifrit for 12 secs
- With Titan-Egi, 3 earth spells, 3rd combo does a DOT effect, Demi Titan for 12 secs

Each time a Demi Summon does its big attack, like SAM you light up a nod,
1 nod : you can use it right away for DeathFlare (potency reduced to 300 because you could go at it every 12 seconds) or you can wait for 2 nods for :
2 nods : TeraFlare (potency 680) or you can wait for 3 nods for :
3 nods active : you can summon Demi Bahamut for 18 secs that does more or less what it actually does (I would make him immobile, and only one Akh Morn in the end but does five rays in a row with a potency of 280 + falldown each, like it should have been from the start)

[IveraIvalice]

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There is a lot of thought put into this and I like that you have solid numbers to show your examples, but I think it's keeping a lot of the current summoner that I wanted to replace such as the ruin spell and egis.
I was more in favor of the dot, ruin, neutral spell and withering feeling of the job to be made into something else, though I don't know all ff jobs enough to say what that would be. And for this vision there wouldn't be egis, just the full summon. The sense of progression from egi to summon is cool but I just don't like egis at all lol

[IveraIvalice]

I mean I can just say the same thing I've said for the last 3 posts again but we really just don't see it the same way.
I'm kinda losing interest in this really, I would have rather talked about improvements, adjustments, filling out the details and other things like that with people rather then go back and forth on how I need to do better with my idea. To me it just plays differently then current jobs and I'm fine with that

[AlphaFox]

Just throwing my 2 cents in, I honestly just wish Summoner felt more along the lines of Yuna in Dissidia. She did not "summon" them in a traditional sense but they appear only a brief moment to unleash certain attacks. Much like in games past minus the lengthy cut scene each time. I'd say let SCH have the Bio/Miasma and let us go into a more primal type. Like allow us to open a portal in which Ifrits head pops out and breathes fire in a cone, Ramuh brings down a strong bolt of lightning on a target and so forth eventually working our way up to Bahamut in 60+

[Shurrikhan]

Just throwing my 2 cents in, I honestly just wish Summoner felt more along the lines of Yuna in Dissidia. She did not "summon" them in a traditional sense but they appear only a brief moment to unleash certain attacks. Much like in games past minus the lengthy cut scene each time. I'd say let SCH have the Bio/Miasma and let us go into a more primal type. Like allow us to open a portal in which Ifrits head pops out and breathes fire in a cone, Ramuh brings down a strong bolt of lightning on a target and so forth eventually working our way up to Bahamut in 60+

But how would this differ from a BLM, then, except that at best the pet provides a massive HP shield against enemies yet void of party enmity (or dies easily, wasting their abilities), and further obscures one's view of the battlefield?

A temporary pet adds another potential entry to each affectable mob's threat table and some amount of HP for them to waste their attacks against. Short of that, it's just a conical Flare, a TC-Thunder IV, etc. How do you want the gameplay to be actually differentiated, if at all? Or would you rather just have what's currently called SMN be more like what's currently called BLM, etc.?

[AlphaFox]

But how would this differ from a BLM, then, except that at best the pet provides a massive HP shield against enemies yet void of party enmity (or dies easily, wasting their abilities), and further obscures one's view of the battlefield?

Different from blackmage, I honestly wouldn't know how. It would have to be a full on revamp as some skills perhaps require no cast while others do. As to avoid obscuring, I would figure a new animation for the book itself, or much like in the video it could just be used as a portal or summoning gate that allows the summon to do its thing and retreat back. For the most part not being much bigger than the caster itself but I am only throwing the idea, not saying its perfect.

Yuna in Dissidia 012.

[IveraIvalice]

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When I was thinking how I wanted smn to be in this game i thought of yuna from dissidia as a possible way it could be. That is another cool way it could be done. I unltimately decided it would be better to feel like your controlling a pet, but either way is a similar feel to a classic summoner. The dissidia summon a bit less so but still summoning big things to do a quick big hit, so still cool

Edit: that was quoted wrong

[Aomine1992]

SMN should have always been an evoker in my opinion, like taking on powers of primals they summon or other beast....Bringing really strong primals to the field to do their signature skill or something but currently SMN is a horribly designed pet class where the pet is delayed and dies to quickly, and the dot mage thing went away at the start of 4.0 so now we are left with what alot of ppl are wondering what is the SMNs role because it's definitely not dps, it's sustained dmg has taken a dive after contagion was changed, and it's utility is crap because a RDM can do it so much better lol

[IveraIvalice]

Snip

Bro your character would look similar to mine if you were a cat. And had face markings
Like alternate versions with the hair color being blue and red