Tank "Role Action" consolidated feedback thread.

[Kabooa]

Remove Shirk.

There are better ways to make tank swapping transitions easier without completely neutering the enmity system.

I.e. Provoke blah blah usual affects, and places a 5 second debuff on target. Target cannot gain enmity from any other source.

The skill itself is mind numbingly overpowered and should either be nerfed or flat out removed imho.

I had to laugh at this, because it really is the most lowkey overpowered ability currently in the game.

[ADVSS]

What if Ultimatum did this instead:
applies diversion effect to party, transfers enmity to tank while active?

[Dauntess]

They need to start with giving back rampart, shadow skin and foresight to their respective classes and go from there. Theres still not many choices that tanks can make in these pools and for some, like DRK, you pretty much need to grab all the mitigation you can, especially below 70.

[BluexBird]

I can't believe nobody has mentioned this yet.

There is no problem with the current tank role action skills. Yes, some of them are useless, but that's not the main problem.

What I find INCREDIBLY frustrating, is that they released a new expansion, gave us a bunch of new role actions skills, and yet... WE STILL ONLY HAVE 5 ROLE ACTION SLOTS?!

So basically, the fix for this would be to allow level 70 characters to pick up 1 more role action skill, for a total of 6. This would allow people to pick the interrupts, which right now are a bother to use, to the point where they're not even worth slotting compared to what else you're able to take.

Rampart
Convalescence
Reprisal
Provoke
Shirk/Awareness

Nothing can contest those. With the extra slot, we can at least pick between Interject/Low Blow for certain fights, and Ultimatum/Anticipation for added utility.

[SyzzleSpark]

Cross role needs to be full of abilities that are useful but situational and thus never required 100% of the time. Right now it isn't.

Awareness and the stun/silence are probably the only abilities in cross role right now that meet this metric.

Rampart should never have gone into cross-role, as it is far too powerful for this purpose. Bloodbath and Foresight should've been merged into a single ability with a dual effect, and Shadowskin should have had a different mechanic to a similar effect. (+30% defense and magic defense or something that equates to roughly -20% damage reduction).

The problem is the tanks lost varying amounts of mitigation that don't have parity with eachother and not all of them can get it back.

The placement of Anticpation in cross-role is utterly baffling. Dark Dance+Reprisal was a core personal mitigation tool for DRK, the raid mitigation was just icing on the cake, as you rarely tried to or even had the luxury to try to have it up when it would matter, so it was mostly just mitigating whatever it mitigated. Dark Dance and Reprisal should have been merged into a single ability (Reduces damage taken by 10% while increasing parry rate by 30%). Anticipation and Reprisal as the exist now are garbage compared to what they once were, and the former is not valued by PLD or WAR at all as they have conflicting synergy with it (PLD blocks overwrite parries, RI is 100% superior on WAR).

Speaking of WAR, all of WAR's existing cooldowns have ridiculous synergy with cross-role abilities. Thrill with Conva, RI with Awareness. These pairings offer similar mitigation to Rampart, so why was Rampart necessary? And why did WAR lose the additional combination of Vengeance+Bloodbath?

Even Provoke/Shirk being in cross role is fluff, and if they were going to make an ability as powerful as Shirk, they should have simply baked its effect into unique taunts for each tank.
For example:

PLD: Provoke - places you at the top of the target's enmity list while increasing said enmity value by 5%.
WAR: Taunt - averages your enmity with that of the current enmity target, and then increases the result by 50%.
DRK: Decoy - triples enmity generation while forcing the target to target you for 20s.

When I look at DPS cross-role abilities (I don't know much about the healers'), I see nothing that increases DPS directly. Nothing. Gone are the days of things like Blood for Blood, Internal Release, etc. So if DPS jobs aren't having to go into cross-role to increase their DPS, why are tank jobs forced to do the same to survive and mitigate damage?

Things like RNG mitigation, mitigation that only works for physical/magical damage, these are the things that belong in cross-role.

In much the same way that Bloodbath was moved to DPS, there are abilities in other roles' cross-role rosters that frankly belong on tanks. Palisade, Apoc, and Eye for an Eye feel like tank abilities more than anything else.

[Umbeliel]

The role skill system in general is kind of bunk because they're not really choices... Must have skills should just automatically be learned by everyone at a certain level and not need slotting.(voke, shirk)

Role should be QoL and utility and maybe more of a commitment like a spec.

Additionally, there's no good reason for the way we learn skills to exist as they are. Butcher's block is not something that needs to be learned separately from skull sunder... Much less a class quest skill. Ignoring the debate of it being on its own button or not(it shouldn't be) all of our skills that basically belong together and are lackluster alone(why is eye a 50 skill? Maim is a dead combo until 42 or whatever when we learn path. Why is ib 35 while the beast gauge is useless for the most part until that point? Why is onslaught so expensive and also not learned until 62?) are learned at staggered and nonsensical times for pretty much no good reason. They could very easily just all be learned in pairs at no real impact to the learning curve. The number of skills never really needed to be trimmed in the first place, the number of buttons did.

[SyzzleSpark]

snip

They could have just removed Spinning Slash/Savage Blade/Skull Sunder entirely, and nerfed the potency of RoH/PS/BB to like 200-ish and made them stand-alone GCDs.

[Umbeliel]

They could have just removed Spinning Slash/Savage Blade/Skull Sunder entirely, and nerfed the potency of RoH/PS/BB to like 200-ish and made them stand-alone GCDs.

Sure, that's fine too ofc.

There's a lot of things that could have been done and they really just dropped the ball on trimming anything and it really just seems more like a homogenization patch the more I think about it. Maim could have very easily have just been deleted and built into path and eye, or heavy swing. Other stuff like that.

[Kabooa]

In much the same way that Bloodbath was moved to DPS, there are abilities in other roles' cross-role rosters that frankly belong on tanks. Palisade, Apoc, and Eye for an Eye feel like tank abilities more than anything else.

Gonna disagree on this point.

FF14's utility division is odd at best, and generally runs counter to the Trinity formula (And while innovating is a good thing, this is more shifting than innovating.)

-Tanks- generally have access to the permanent defense/offense reducing targeted debuffs. It not only cements them as the 'Priority' marker, but also solidifies their place in the group. Tanks dealing less damage is fine, because tanks enable everyone else by virtue of better mitigation and enhancing via focus fire mechanics. With this in mind, the 'Resistance Down' afflictions that are scattered about make very little sense on the DPS, but are much better placed on the tanks.

However, selective protection is generally the realm of -Healers- and occasionally DPS, in very select variations.

Palisade makes more sense as a Healer Role ability. Eye for an Eye in its current form is strange and honestly could be between any role of Healer, Tank, and Caster. Apocastasis similar to Palisade would be something under Healers.

Mitigation abilities are generally Tank related when they are -self-, and Healer related when they are -given-. This is primarily because the tanks responsibilities are enemy-centered while the healer responsibilities are party-centered. In this regard, 'Arms Reach' definitely makes more sense as a Tank Ability, but would also arguably be much stronger.

[mosaicex]

Rampart should go back being mandatory tank skill, period. There is no reason for it to be optional in the first place. I COULD argue for most other optional role skills, but not Rampart.