Is MCH even support?

[Ghastly]

With Machinist you basically play the hardest piano tune in the world and end up losing to someone playing lyp synching a song (bard).

I just want them to tell us what MCH is supposed to be. If they want bard as the BLM/SAM of physical range classes then ok fine but shouldn't MCH have more support skills than bard then? If they messed up and want bard to be the actual bard and support the most shouldn't their damage be lower than MCH then?

It's a bit sad because new MCH is really fun but getting anything out of them besides savage raids where bosses move around/have 10000 mechanics isn't worth it. I hope they don't only see savage raid numbers and think it's ok because ONLY in savage raids do bosses give you enough time to use your best burst again. Anywhere besides that it doesn't make sense.

Maybe they just need to change the identity of the job and instead of burst remove overheat mechanic and make it about staying within 50/95 on the gauge and then reset to 0 if you go above 95 instead of giving you a complete penalty. This also makes flamethrower use more interesting. Or just remove the penalty altogether, seriously. That overheat mechanics goes too far, we already have Wildfire and the rook/bishop overload, we don't need another one with the heat gauge overheat and then it turns into a penalty.

[Raikai]

I just tested something... I'm not geared enough for omega 1 savage, but I went into that test dummy and with my MCH (properly geared and melded) and with almost no messing up with rotations, I've managed to bring the dummy to 15%...

Then I went with my SCH that is about the same gear levels as MCH and went into full dps rotation and... achieved the SAME results! And I felt I could have went even further because I forgot to use chain stratagem and did not use Aetherflow stacks offensively w/ energy drain.


Something is reallt botched with MCH.

They need either to buff their dps to the non-supporty dpsers OR give them 2 more utility tools to be on par with goddamn BRD.

I love to play healing and supporting classes in RPGs, that's why I went to MCH. I don't really like BRD thematically being some sort of glorified archer, the job isn't very fun to me.

[KageTokage]

I just tested something... I'm not geared enough for omega 1 savage, but I went into that test dummy and with my MCH (properly geared and melded) and with almost no messing up with rotations, I've managed to bring the dummy to 15%...

Then I went with my SCH that is about the same gear levels as MCH and went into full dps rotation and... achieved the SAME results! And I felt I could have went even further because I forgot to use chain stratagem and did not use Aetherflow stacks offensively w/ energy drain.

Something is reallt botched with MCH.

That's not really indicative of anything, because the target dummy's HP is different depending on what class you're using.

Tanks and healers have weaker dummies to compensate for their lower DPS.

Doesn't change the fact that MCH is genuinely messed up right now, though.

[Pomelo]

To be honest, I hope they focus more on the DPS aspect of MCH when they come to buffs, buff it up really high, theres nothing literally saying that both physical ranged DPS jobs have to be support focused.

[AkashiXI]

With Machinist you basically play the hardest piano tune in the world and end up losing to someone playing lyp synching a song (bard).

It's posts like yours that irk me the wrong way. The way you're comparing Bard and Machinist is infallible and dumbed down - Bard is in no way an easy job to perform with in Raid. Is it as hard as MCH? No, but to say it's like your comparison just shows your disdain towards the meta currently. Don't lash out at a job that's perfectly tuned (Bard) for its role, that's a mob mentality that'll end up nerfing a job that doesn't need it.

Also, Bard does nowhere near the damage a red mage or black mage does. With Dragon Sight and Disembowel (along with Battle Litany), they're comparing, however those are buffs that are given from another job. Bard is nowhere near the level of the caster counterparts.

[BubblyBoar]

Bruh didnt you already post this in reddit?

Actually, I posted to reddit what I posted here, mostly because I'm interested i the opinions of others and not everyone comes here.

That said, I really can't understand the reasoning behind anything that they did with MCH.

[CosmicKirby]

They dropped the (musket) ball on MCH. Their class "support skills" are really no different than any other DPS with a group CD. Even Dismantle is terrible as all three tanks can do the exact same thing on a shorter CD with Reprisal. Unless you really enjoy the play style, there's no reason in playing one.

Correction: Reprisal and Dismantle have the same cooldown. They are LITERALLY the same exact skill in all aspects, just under a different name. (Effect/duration/cooldown)

MCH's has nothing 'nice' when compared to any other job.

Their turrets became no more complex with Stormblood because they removed Promote from them, something that gave them at least SOME complexity in a minor way, (their auras worked slightly different from BRD songs). Further, part of their DPS 'budget' is wasted on the turret, meaning their best feedback loop of BIG damage from wildfires is gimped, because for some UNGODLY reason neither the turret nor their biggest potency ability Overdrive contributes to wildfire.
How does Square think this is acceptable? What if RDM's Embolden had no effect on their rotation, 'just because'? Or if Blood for Blood had no effect on DRG's jumps? It doesn't feel good and is a core reason why their dps is below the curve.

There's nothing interesting or interactive with turrets at all right now. The only 'option' to mix up turret use is to blow them up to benefit from the Vuln up, a practice which is only BARELY a dps gain and comes with all the same problems of dragon kick. Meaning most players won't bother to use it, or worse, use it ineffectively and hurt their own dps.

The MACHINE, in Machinist, is boring. This is a HUGE problem Square, what are you thinking? I'd be far more happy with a Gunslinger type of class, because the job barely uses gadgets at all, and the ones they do have are boring and or horrible.

[SomeRandomHuman]

I was hoping they'd expand upon the turrets at least, BRD have their songs they improved and made the song system better and MCH have their turrets and they.....didnt do anything. BRDs use a Flute to activate their songs MCH use the same animation they use for everything else -_-

That button they press on the hip thing is the VHS tape of the bard playing their flute.

[RichardButte]

I generally love the MCH rotation but I hate the fact that, no matter how well I nail the rotation, I still feel like I'm just tickling things.

Then I switch to NIN, a class with better support abilities than MCH and stuff just melts...

I wouldn't mind if they went ahead and made MCH a full-blown pet class and just had the turret follow you around. It would be one less repetitive button to push (especially in POTD, good GOD...) and if the turret had a proper pet bar, maybe they could come up with some interesting interactions instead of just it being a "place and forget" DoT like it is now.

[Zeonsilt]

The MACHINE, in Machinist, is boring. This is a HUGE problem Square, what are you thinking? I'd be far more happy with a Gunslinger type of class, because the job barely uses gadgets at all, and the ones they do have are boring and or horrible.

Actually, i like this idea.
Removing turrets/etc and make it a pure gunslinger class.