Healer & Tank DPS (WoW vs FFXIV)

[Hunky]

That seems like a lackadaisical reason to waste a spot on a "extra" healer though.

If your healer dies, maybe it'd be more prudent to consider that a catastrophic mistake leading to a wipe and just move on to the next pull and try again? You'd stand to complete the encounter much more efficiently in the event your healer doesn't make such a mistake, no?

In a world where healers and tanks are optimizing to the point of maximizing DPS, isn't it contradictory to cast a safety net of such extremity for your raid, that of bringing a 2nd healer in case the first (presumedly the only *necessary* one) dies, when they shouldn't?

That's true, but even the best players can make mistakes sometimes. There are very few groups out there that play flawlessly, and most people who play this game (casual to midcore) will make mistakes.

For example, many people had trouble with Shinryu. It wasn't just healers getting killed, but dps and tanks too. Akh morn, the white pillar that accompanies akh morn, moving after diamond dust, and other mechanics caused many players to get knocked out.

Having that safety net allows for groups to make a comeback. And sometimes it works. The sole standing healer will use LB3, everyone gets back in the fight, and it gets cleared.

While it would be ideal that everyone plays optimally, it isn't always going to happen.

Apart from that, there are certain fights that have mechanics exclusive to healers, such as Ifrit Extreme that requires one healer to be far away from the group, leaving the other healer to do all the work for a while.

[Kallera]

I heard that caveat to healer dps not being needed is " so long as you are all playing perfectly with max gear". Usually neither are true.

[Teranuh]

I heard that caveat to healer dps not being needed is " so long as you are all playing perfectly with max gear". Usually neither are true.

Not really, outside of O3S/O4S where everyone should already be optimal, at least until everyone is geared in full 330/340. Anywhere else, 4 decent to good DPS + 2 average tanks are all that's required to meet enrages. That being said, there's no reason a healer can't DPS when the group you're dealt allows for it.
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As an example, I rarely DPSed on my last Susy EX run because people were constantly getting hit by additional mechanics. We still met enrage despite having multiple DPS die and both the other healer and I doing less damage than we would optimally. Generally speaking, enrage timers outside of Savage are generous. The problem lies in some DPS not taking personal responsibility for doing less damage than they should be able to, at least in that regard.

[Tufelhunden]

In a static group, sure I'll stance dance and dps. In finder or a PUG, rarely. Many times I've had to burn a cool down and use inner beast through the whole time and still almost die, because, yep you guessed it the healer is DPSing.

[Zarabeth]

In a static group, sure I'll stance dance and dps. In finder or a PUG, rarely. Many times I've had to burn a cool down and use inner beast through the whole time and still almost die, because, yep you guessed it the healer is DPSing.

I get complimented by tanks all the time because I heal and rarely dps. I do my best to keep everyone alive because I realize that DPS can out dps me for the most part. (I'm a WHM). If I have time, I'll toss out some DPS, but never at the expense of another player in the group. Letting others die because I'm going Holy Happy is just silly to me.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

If I have time, I'll toss out some DPS, but never at the expense of another player in the group. Letting others die because I'm going Holy Happy is just silly to me.

Congrats, you're better than most healers here and in game. 10/10.

[Cenerae]

I get complimented by tanks all the time because I heal and rarely dps. I do my best to keep everyone alive because I realize that DPS can out dps me for the most part. (I'm a WHM). If I have time, I'll toss out some DPS, but never at the expense of another player in the group. Letting others die because I'm going Holy Happy is just silly to me.

I don't think anyone in the thread has been claiming that you're supposed to DPS at the expense of doing your actual job. People that do that are stupid.

[Thoro39]

I don't think anyone in the thread has been claiming that you're supposed to DPS at the expense of doing your actual job. People that do that are stupid.

Exactly, her argument is a pretty moot and useless one. No one sane is arguing that a healer should abandon their healing duties for more DPS. Absolutely no one.

Love healers like you. I can go full DPS for the boss fights and just use the cooldowns for tank busters. Trash, yea I'm in deliverance for the IB mitigation so I don't have to blow cooldowns.

You should use your cooldowns on dungeon trash, because for the most part, Dungeon Trash hit for more damage than the Dungeon Bosses. Especially if you are a warrior with short defensive cooldown timers, your CD's will be ready by the next trash/dungeonboss if you use them early. Everytime vengeance sits unused for 2 minutes, you wasted a whole vengeance usage. The same applies for any cooldown.
Don't be an unnecessarily squishy Tank for 80% of the whole dungeon, just because you think you have to save your CD's exclusively for the other 20%, the bosses.

[Zarabeth]

I don't think anyone in the thread has been claiming that you're supposed to DPS at the expense of doing your actual job. People that do that are stupid.

I didn't say they did nor am I calling anyone stupid, that's unkind. I simply stated how I do things in reply to another post.

[Tufelhunden]

I get complimented by tanks all the time because I heal and rarely dps. I do my best to keep everyone alive because I realize that DPS can out dps me for the most part. (I'm a WHM). If I have time, I'll toss out some DPS, but never at the expense of another player in the group. Letting others die because I'm going Holy Happy is just silly to me.

Love healers like you. I can go full DPS for the boss fights and just use the cooldowns for tank busters. Trash, yea I'm in deliverance for the IB mitigation so I don't have to blow cooldowns.