Remove PLD Utility?

[Lyth]

...

I've posted the full details in the tank balance thread, but even exclusively focusing in on the upper percentiles, it's about a 200+ dps difference between WAR and DRK for most fights except for V2S (V2S is actually pretty close for all three tanks). That's about the same difference that you saw in 4.01 between PLD and WAR, when players were clamouring for PLD nerfs and WAR buffs, so I don't think that it's pocket change. At least, it wasn't a few weeks ago, before the re-balancing that took place in 4.05.

Stance usage is inversely proportionate to percentile, and dps uptime is directly proportionate to percentile. Your personal dps directly influences clear time. All these things are incorporated into your overall performance. You can come up with any number of excuses why you aren't performing as you could ("I sprained my forehead on the Fell Cleave button"), but generally speaking, when you're looking at a variety of different players in different setups doing the same fights, they become a pretty good representation of tank performance.

Personally, I'm not interested in pure potency buffs. I think the majority of DRK's issues come from the resource penalties associated with tanking and using our mitigation moves, and addressing this will go a long way in unlocking the job's versatility. It doesn't need to be the highest dps tank. It's actually extremely fun and engaging to play.

In HW, we were theoretically supposed to do less damage than WAR (by virtue of their superior design, of course), but there were still plenty of DRKs out there who managed to outperform the average WAR (not that the bar was all that high to begin with). It comes down to those points you mentioned: minimising tank stance use, maximising uptime. I'm fairly confident that we'll continue to find ways to do so irrespective of more punishing job mechanics, especially when the majority of the WAR playerbase doesn't understand the value of uptime tools like Onslaught. You just have to strive to be 20 percentiles better.

Everyone struggles with different things. I'm simply pointing out that if you're struggling to outperform a PLD/DRK comp on WAR, the data shows that it isn't the job that's holding you back.

[ovIm]

Your topic is inherently click-bait.

As to my answer, it uses many words I'm not allowed to say on here. So in response, I suggest that you put the pipe down and back away.

I find it sad that you cant find it in you to discuss this in a mature and objective manner without resorting to offensive language.

But Im open for constructive criticism. Do you have a suggestion how I could have worded this topic better, for future reference?

[Launched]

Data from the first two weeks shows that WAR provides the highest dps by a significant margin on pretty much every fight across all skill levels. There's no need for assistance from Intervention or TBN when you have the largest free mitigation toolkit in the game (although you'll always have at least one of these available), and most of your resource costs were stripped away with 4.05. WAR has the least amount of variation in dps with percentile, indicating that it's the most forgiving to optimise. As it was in HW, if you're complaining about DRK outperforming you, you're simply playing with a significantly higher skilled tank (i.e. by at least 10-20 percentiles minimum).

You're looking at the numbers but making no effort to understand them. High percentiles have all 3 tanks at similar DPS because those players can optimise all 3 tanks and maximise DPS uptime. The lower you go, the more likely you'll see groups that just have the PLD/DRK MT with 100% tank stance uptime while the WAR stays in Deliverance just because that's what they did for all of ARR and HW. At that point it doesn't matter that WAR is more awkward, because the PLDs and DRKs are operating with a permanent 20%+ penalty.

At 95th percentile (a good place to look at how jobs actually compare to each other), WAR is <100 DPS ahead of PLD. You can't seriously think that's a significant margin when we're able to do 3000+ DPS. WAR's "superior" mitigation and DPS clearly aren't enough to make it more desirable in O3S/O4S, the current hardest fights. If PLD/DRK utility didn't actually mean anything, they wouldn't have triple the Neo Exdeath clears that WAR does. Seems like DPS actually isn't the only metric for tanks.

[Seku]

Not too sure why people are trying to down play plds support abilities. But 15 percent reduction on the group is a lot. Its not needed in any thing but prog in theory. But the truth is most people here don't have the ability to play their job to their fullest. That and when placed with other mitigation options it gets ridiculous. The only thing they need to do now is get rid of the cure componet for dv

[Kabooa]

Look, you want to neuter the paladin, just move Royal Authority back to Savage Blade.

[Capn_Goggles]

I think kneecapping one class is a horrible, HORRIBLE approach to balancing unless it truly deserves it. As it is I think Paladin is fine, though there are aspects of it that need tweaking (yes, even the best tank still has gameplay issues, loathe as anyone is to admit it). Paladin is pretty well-designed right now, and the issue with tank balance isn't so much its fault as it is of DRK and WAR.

Dark Knight needs its mitigation and DPS addressed, because it shouldn't be leaning on The Blackest Night as its primary form of defense in fights, and it should do damage in accordance with its utility. Warrior needs inner release, its tank stance, and its overall damage output addressed. If they kept PLD the way it is right now and then buffed WAR or DRK instead, I think tanking would be in the best state it has ever been in (really, REALLY not much of an endorsement); the groundwork is all there, they just need to work out the kinks.

[aqskerorokero]

I tell you what drk and war want to do to pld, cut the left arm and cancel Holy spirit..... do you really think they care about pld's utilities? they were designed for party protection jn 3.0 and still retains this design, got my point? as long as pld can do its top dps and still be a wall, drk and war won't be happy, cuz they suppose to be derpees tank.....

[Ekimmak]

I tell you what drk and war want to do to pld, cut the left arm and cancel Holy spirit..... do you really think they care about pld's utilities? they were designed for party protection jn 3.0 and still retains this design, got my point? as long as pld can do its top dps and still be a wall, drk and war won't be happy, cuz they suppose to be derpees tank.....

The reason they want Paladin broken is quite simple.

Tell me of all the times you'd want to bring Warrior or Dark Knight to a fight instead of Paladin.

[Seku]

The reason they want Paladin broken is quite simple.

Tell me of all the times you'd want to bring Warrior or Dark Knight to a fight instead of Paladin.

Limit break and tank buster shield from drks the blackest night

[Ekimmak]

Limit break and tank buster shield from drks the blackest night

Exactly.

The only reason you want DRK for anything is the shield. The only reason you bring a different tank is for the LB.

Th defence rests.