Remove PLD Utility?

[Shinkyo]

Removing pld utility moves wouldn't change the meta since even without them, pld would still be the better designed tank overall.
They are easier to play, have sustained dps that's less impacted by mechanics, can completely skip mechanics with HG, and good passive mitigation from blocks.
It would balance out the tanks a bit more though

[Dortharl]

Removing pld utility moves wouldn't change the meta since even without them, pld would still be the better designed tank overall.
They are easier to play, have sustained dps that's less impacted by mechanics, can completely skip mechanics with HG, and good passive mitigation from blocks.
It would balance out the tanks a bit more though

Saying PLD is easier to play than WAR is ridiculous, and the skipping of mechanics with HG does not work anymore. If you wish to critique class design you should limit the hyperbole. At this point I'm glad SE does not balance classes using community feedback because this forum has become farcical.

[Shinkyo]

snip

What's ridiculous about PLD being easier to play exactly? Everything in their rotation lines up perfectly and hardly anything hurts their DPS uptime.
Playing PLD from a DPS standpoint is like driving with a GPS and with green lights all the way.
In comparison, DRK can only outdps PLD if they maximize buff windows like Trick Attack which requires planning and gauge management.
WAR is the most complex of tanks from a rotation standpoint and their dps sinks if they have to deal with mechanics.


As for HG, even if you still get debuffed now, it's still allows you to ignore mechanics and survive with little burden to your healers.
You fucked up mindjack in V3S and walked to the wrong location? Hallowed will save you.

And no I am not criticizing class design, on the contrary I'm just highlighting how well PLD is designed currently.
As for the other Tanks, both WAR and DRK currently suffer from having 1 skill that are completely Core to their class (IR, TBN) which hurts you a great deal when you're not in a position to use it. It's not all bad per say but PLD doesn't have that issue.

[Lyth]

...

Data from the first two weeks shows that WAR provides the highest dps by a significant margin on pretty much every fight across all skill levels. There's no need for assistance from Intervention or TBN when you have the largest free mitigation toolkit in the game (although you'll always have at least one of these available), and most of your resource costs were stripped away with 4.05. WAR has the least amount of variation in dps with percentile, indicating that it's the most forgiving to optimise. As it was in HW, if you're complaining about DRK outperforming you, you're simply playing with a significantly higher skilled tank (i.e. by at least 10-20 percentiles minimum).

[Dzian]

Hm, if we give PLD a gap closer for further homogenization, then we might have to adjust Holy Spirit range a bit, but otherwise, you do have a good point there. If all tanks were equal we might as well just throw it all into 1 class and call it a day, that would make the game indeed rather boring.

Screw homogenization it's already killed job identity.

Need to diversify jobs not homogonize.

Paladin doesn't need a gap closer either. I really don't get what the obsession with having one is all about.

[Tufelhunden]

Every Palladin says the utility is worthless, so yes I agree it should be removed. Funny thing is those same Palladins are now arguing for keeping the utility. Which is it worthless or they want it. Can't have it both ways.

[AdamZ]

Data from the first two weeks shows that WAR provides the highest dps by a significant margin on pretty much every fight across all skill levels.

It is a 3-4% difference from WAR to Pally in the 75+ (not sure what is "significant" by your def). You can't take parses across all percentiles ranges and call them skill/what the job does at this point, tank/dps stance uptime is not being factored in, and the usage of these is more often determined of the parties skill. You are trying to compare tank damage like dps damage, it does not work, unless you are looking at the top of the range, because at that point you know the player, no matter the class, has close to 100% uptime on dps stance.

Look we get it, you want DRK damage buffed, don't think there is anyone out there saying not to buff DRK damage, but stop downplaying the clear edge Pally has.

[Silver-Strider]

I'm the type that prefers utility and would be opposed to the removal of PLD's utility.

Others will disagree but often times I find that people that say "Screw Utility" are the same players that don't use support skills, be they natural to the class itself (MNK's Montra) or are cross role skills (Goad/Mana Shift). It's not so much that it would remove PLD's identity as Mitigation tanks but because not everyone feels the same way about it. I personally use Intervention/Cover/Passage of Arms/Divine Veil every opportunity I get as it lessens the strain on everyone involved and does make the run smoother in general as it covers for those tiny mistakes people tend to make periodically.

Maybe it's because I'm a healer at heart and understand how much of a strain it can be having to heal these mistakes, that I would have greatly appreciated any help offered, maybe it's because I've got more than 1 braincell that only knows how to play with the entire toolkit of a class instead of just the ones that do damage, whatever the reason, I'm always looking for opportunities to help the team out as best I can.

[Kosmos992k]

Sorry for the clickbaiting title there (;

Your topic is inherently click-bait.

As to my answer, it uses many words I'm not allowed to say on here. So in response, I suggest that you put the pipe down and back away.

[Kosmos992k]

Every Palladin says the utility is worthless, so yes I agree it should be removed. Funny thing is those same Palladins are now arguing for keeping the utility. Which is it worthless or they want it. Can't have it both ways.

You're wrong. I am a Paladin, it's my primary role, I don't play the other tanks, and don't have anything else past 60. I like being a Paladin, and I most certainly do not say that the utility is worthless. It speaks to a different style of play that ignores the DPS meta, so it's not popular. I prfer the paladin to have better mitigation and utility. I've always been onboard with PLD having a little less DPS than the other tanks in exchange for the greater mitigation and utility.