Remove PLD Utility?

[Kosmos992k]

Every Palladin says the utility is worthless, so yes I agree it should be removed. Funny thing is those same Palladins are now arguing for keeping the utility. Which is it worthless or they want it. Can't have it both ways.

You're wrong. I am a Paladin, it's my primary role, I don't play the other tanks, and don't have anything else past 60. I like being a Paladin, and I most certainly do not say that the utility is worthless. It speaks to a different style of play that ignores the DPS meta, so it's not popular. I prfer the paladin to have better mitigation and utility. I've always been onboard with PLD having a little less DPS than the other tanks in exchange for the greater mitigation and utility.

[Silver-Strider]

I'm the type that prefers utility and would be opposed to the removal of PLD's utility.

Others will disagree but often times I find that people that say "Screw Utility" are the same players that don't use support skills, be they natural to the class itself (MNK's Montra) or are cross role skills (Goad/Mana Shift). It's not so much that it would remove PLD's identity as Mitigation tanks but because not everyone feels the same way about it. I personally use Intervention/Cover/Passage of Arms/Divine Veil every opportunity I get as it lessens the strain on everyone involved and does make the run smoother in general as it covers for those tiny mistakes people tend to make periodically.

Maybe it's because I'm a healer at heart and understand how much of a strain it can be having to heal these mistakes, that I would have greatly appreciated any help offered, maybe it's because I've got more than 1 braincell that only knows how to play with the entire toolkit of a class instead of just the ones that do damage, whatever the reason, I'm always looking for opportunities to help the team out as best I can.

[Kosmos992k]

Sorry for the clickbaiting title there (;

Your topic is inherently click-bait.

As to my answer, it uses many words I'm not allowed to say on here. So in response, I suggest that you put the pipe down and back away.

[ovIm]

Your topic is inherently click-bait.

As to my answer, it uses many words I'm not allowed to say on here. So in response, I suggest that you put the pipe down and back away.

I find it sad that you cant find it in you to discuss this in a mature and objective manner without resorting to offensive language.

But Im open for constructive criticism. Do you have a suggestion how I could have worded this topic better, for future reference?

[Lyth]

...

I've posted the full details in the tank balance thread, but even exclusively focusing in on the upper percentiles, it's about a 200+ dps difference between WAR and DRK for most fights except for V2S (V2S is actually pretty close for all three tanks). That's about the same difference that you saw in 4.01 between PLD and WAR, when players were clamouring for PLD nerfs and WAR buffs, so I don't think that it's pocket change. At least, it wasn't a few weeks ago, before the re-balancing that took place in 4.05.

Stance usage is inversely proportionate to percentile, and dps uptime is directly proportionate to percentile. Your personal dps directly influences clear time. All these things are incorporated into your overall performance. You can come up with any number of excuses why you aren't performing as you could ("I sprained my forehead on the Fell Cleave button"), but generally speaking, when you're looking at a variety of different players in different setups doing the same fights, they become a pretty good representation of tank performance.

Personally, I'm not interested in pure potency buffs. I think the majority of DRK's issues come from the resource penalties associated with tanking and using our mitigation moves, and addressing this will go a long way in unlocking the job's versatility. It doesn't need to be the highest dps tank. It's actually extremely fun and engaging to play.

In HW, we were theoretically supposed to do less damage than WAR (by virtue of their superior design, of course), but there were still plenty of DRKs out there who managed to outperform the average WAR (not that the bar was all that high to begin with). It comes down to those points you mentioned: minimising tank stance use, maximising uptime. I'm fairly confident that we'll continue to find ways to do so irrespective of more punishing job mechanics, especially when the majority of the WAR playerbase doesn't understand the value of uptime tools like Onslaught. You just have to strive to be 20 percentiles better.

Everyone struggles with different things. I'm simply pointing out that if you're struggling to outperform a PLD/DRK comp on WAR, the data shows that it isn't the job that's holding you back.

[Kabooa]

Look, you want to neuter the paladin, just move Royal Authority back to Savage Blade.

[Capn_Goggles]

I think kneecapping one class is a horrible, HORRIBLE approach to balancing unless it truly deserves it. As it is I think Paladin is fine, though there are aspects of it that need tweaking (yes, even the best tank still has gameplay issues, loathe as anyone is to admit it). Paladin is pretty well-designed right now, and the issue with tank balance isn't so much its fault as it is of DRK and WAR.

Dark Knight needs its mitigation and DPS addressed, because it shouldn't be leaning on The Blackest Night as its primary form of defense in fights, and it should do damage in accordance with its utility. Warrior needs inner release, its tank stance, and its overall damage output addressed. If they kept PLD the way it is right now and then buffed WAR or DRK instead, I think tanking would be in the best state it has ever been in (really, REALLY not much of an endorsement); the groundwork is all there, they just need to work out the kinks.

[aqskerorokero]

I tell you what drk and war want to do to pld, cut the left arm and cancel Holy spirit..... do you really think they care about pld's utilities? they were designed for party protection jn 3.0 and still retains this design, got my point? as long as pld can do its top dps and still be a wall, drk and war won't be happy, cuz they suppose to be derpees tank.....

[Ekimmak]

I tell you what drk and war want to do to pld, cut the left arm and cancel Holy spirit..... do you really think they care about pld's utilities? they were designed for party protection jn 3.0 and still retains this design, got my point? as long as pld can do its top dps and still be a wall, drk and war won't be happy, cuz they suppose to be derpees tank.....

The reason they want Paladin broken is quite simple.

Tell me of all the times you'd want to bring Warrior or Dark Knight to a fight instead of Paladin.

[Seku]

The reason they want Paladin broken is quite simple.

Tell me of all the times you'd want to bring Warrior or Dark Knight to a fight instead of Paladin.

Limit break and tank buster shield from drks the blackest night