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  1. #1
    Player
    Snowaeth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    335
    Character
    Snow Ball
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by AmandaLashaquoa View Post
    Hum yeah so those are your words btw
    It does alter the way brd is played because if you take out RNG it will totally become rotation over priority and if you don't know the difference those two then you probably should just erase this post and leave brd as it is.
    And you are
    A. Misunderstanding what I'm suggesting
    B. Taking that misunderstanding and applying it to what you have in your mind

    I have not once suggested that bard looses its dot proc's, only Straight Shot proc's becoming non rng.
    Now please understand what the difference is between those two and what they actually do.

    And don't ignore this part
    "And my suggestion does not alter the way bard is played right now in a significant way."
    (0)

  2. #2
    Player
    MuseTraveller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    586
    Character
    Mihn Saruihn
    World
    Malboro
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 80
    Please, for the love of all holy and scared and Thal's balls, do not touch bard! I... I get cast bars flashbacks.
    (2)

  3. #3
    Player
    Shurrikhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    12,868
    Character
    Tani Shirai
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by MuseTraveller View Post
    Please, for the love of all holy and scared and Thal's balls, do not touch bard! I... I get cast bars flashbacks.
    Increased frequency and reliability of the one skill that removed cast bars in Heavensward, gives you a fear of cast bars... in a post-castbar Bard?


    On topic:

    I'm fine with Straighter Shot being RNG, although I'd prefer that it be a normalized sort of RNG (see WoW for examples, wherein the actual chance starts much higher, fades on successes, and increases over failures to proc).
    Now that Straighter Shot is no longer vital to movement and double-weaving, I don't mind its frequency as is. Any increase would adjust earlier levels' DPS and simply cost Refulgent Arrow potency, at best slightly improves its syncing with Barrage. This would be a slight improvement, but only slight.

    What I'm not okay with is the button bloat involved in Refulgent Arrow and Pitch Perfect. I'd prefer that Pitch Perfect gain an AoE variant, e.g. Dissonance, and that each replace Bloodletter and Rain of Death, generating one stack per 15 seconds in addition to those generated by Repertoire. Refulgent Arrow should either lose potency to attach the usual crit buff, or now replace Heavy Shot on Heavier Shot procs, while Straighter Shot is effectively removed after acquisition of Refulgent Arrow.

    The relatively low value of Army's Paeon also leaves much to be desired. I'd prefer that each Repertoire gained in Army's Paeon reduce the cooldown of Barrage (and perhaps Sidewinder) slightly, including after reaching 4/4 Repertoire, and that the clause on Barrage preventing additional effects from occurring more than once be removed, allowing Barrage to instantly grant three stacks of Attack Speed or Pitch Perfect.
    (2)
    Last edited by Shurrikhan; 07-29-2017 at 04:20 PM.

  4. #4
    Player
    Snowaeth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    335
    Character
    Snow Ball
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Shurrikhan View Post
    Increased frequency and reliability of the one skill that removed cast bars in Heavensward, gives you a fear of cast bars... in a post-castbar Bard?


    On topic:

    I'm fine with Straighter Shot being RNG, although I'd prefer that it be a normalized sort of RNG (see WoW for examples, wherein the actual chance starts much higher, fades on successes, and increases over failures to proc).
    Now that Straighter Shot is no longer vital to movement and double-weaving, I don't mind its frequency as is. Any increase would adjust earlier levels' DPS and simply cost Refulgent Arrow potency, at best slightly improves its syncing with Barrage. This would be a slight improvement, but only slight.

    What I'm not okay with is the button bloat involved in Refulgent Arrow and Pitch Perfect. I'd prefer that Pitch Perfect gain an AoE variant, e.g. Dissonance, and that each replace Bloodletter and Rain of Death, generating one stack per 15 seconds in addition to those generated by Repertoire. Refulgent Arrow should either lose potency to attach the usual crit buff, or now replace Heavy Shot on Heavier Shot procs, while Straighter Shot is effectively removed after acquisition of Refulgent Arrow.

    The relatively low value of Army's Paeon also leaves much to be desired. I'd prefer that each Repertoire gained in Army's Paeon reduce the cooldown of Barrage (and perhaps Sidewinder) slightly, including after reaching 4/4 Repertoire, and that the clause on Barrage preventing additional effects from occurring more than once be removed, allowing Barrage to instantly grant three stacks of Attack Speed or Pitch Perfect.
    I like some of your suggestions a lot.
    Especially the ones that are just QoL changes.

    Having Refulgent Arrow replace Heavy Shot on proc, would be a clean QoL change without adding any power.

    As I suggested myself as well, Refulgent Arrow should indeed replace Straighter Shot proc at level 70.
    RA > SS even if you need to refresh SS at that point, so having it conflict with SS is just an annoyance and serves no good purpose.
    Once again this would not add any power, just a QoL change.

    The Pitch Perfect idea where BL/RoD are replaced with Wanderers Minuet counterparts during that song while keeping the 15sec = stack mechanic sounds pretty sweet.
    This would add some power though and isn't just QoL. Also the way WM works right now doesn't have serious issues with it, but nevertheless a great idea which would improve game-play and one I'd gladly welcome.

    Army's Paeon would indeed feel a lot more useful if it actually had an effect for its stacks beyond the initial 4.
    Right now it serves well as a filler song that you cut short, but it doesn't give you the feel of doing something unlike the other two songs.

    Barrage being able to apply more than one effect, for the sake of game-play would be amazing.
    But it would add a lot of power and is the least likely of being implemented imo, since that amount of power would have to be taken out somewhere else.

    Coming back to Refulgent Arrow.
    I've seen a couple of suggestions other than my own now how to change it up.
    For me the amount of RNG and the influence this has on our dps is too high.
    So I would applaud anything that would be implemented and which would normalize the RNG on it.
    (0)

  5. #5
    Player
    Shurrikhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    12,868
    Character
    Tani Shirai
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowaeth View Post
    As I suggested myself as well, Refulgent Arrow should indeed replace Straighter Shot proc at level 70.
    RA > SS even if you need to refresh SS at that point, so having it conflict with SS is just an annoyance and serves no good purpose.
    Once again this would not add any power, just a QoL change.
    Just to be clear, my suggestion here was actually to replace the trait. In other words, once you have access to Refulgent Arrow, Straighter Shot does not become Refulgent Arrow. Rather, Straighter Shot is gone at that point. The Heavier Shot now does something completely different. Now it replaces Heavy Shot itself with Refulgent Arrow. Straight Shot is untouched and does not share the proc. So you now have the option to refresh Straight Shot freely after banking a Refulgent Arrow, which overlays Heavy Shot.

    This WOULD be an actual rotational DPS increase, because you can now (over)extend your Straight Shot buff one GCD further than before, or use one more Heavy Shot per Iron Jaws. Generally, for those who were already playing correctly, that's just a 10 potency gain, but its reduced skill gap would probably amount to more for most players over time (probably around 140-320 potency per IJ, if previously very negligent).

    Barrage being able to apply more than one effect, for the sake of game-play would be amazing.
    But it would add a lot of power and is the least likely of being implemented imo, since that amount of power would have to be taken out somewhere else.
    ...May I suggest Refulgent Arrow? At that point, though, priority would be EA (if no stacks WM or 1 stack AP) > RA > EA (if overcapping) Straighter Shot (if retained) > Heavy Shot.

    The Pitch Perfect idea where BL/RoD are replaced with Wanderers Minuet counterparts during that song while keeping the 15sec = stack mechanic sounds pretty sweet.
    This would add some power though and isn't just QoL. Also the way WM works right now doesn't have serious issues with it, but nevertheless a great idea which would improve game-play and one I'd gladly welcome.
    True. Adding a single stack adds 100 potency, down from 130. The second adds 140, and the last adds 180. (The value per stack increases by 20 each time, after all.) However, this change would also increase concerns of overcapping. If the cooldown and the global (DoT) tick sync, you're looking at 1-2 stacks wasted per song, costing 200 to 360 potency over the 30 seconds' duration. Compared to leaving the 15s recast separate, attached to Bloodletter, it can be up to a 100 potency gain, or a 60 potency loss. While this would perhaps increase skill gap and offers new RNG issues of its own, I simply chose this design over the nerf of locking out BL/RoD completely because at least it retains the reliable 2 stacks per 30s. So again, it's not a perfect idea by any means, but I favor it in the same sense that I preferred not to have multiple stacks/charges of Bloodletter available in Heavensward's Bow Mage; I like the risk of waste, to a degree.
    (1)

  6. #6
    Player

    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    64
    I think the aggravation that others are having is that BRD is in a really great place compared to pretty much all other DPS jobs - so it seems really petty and pointless to even discuss any modifications.

    That said, I like the system as it. Proc's give you that rush of spontaneous choice making. Will Heavy Shot proc into Straighter Shot or not? If it does, what will I do? Do I need to re-up Straight Shot? Should I burn it on Refulgent Arrow? What else do I have coming off cooldown in the next second or two? etc.

    Without procs, all you're doing is keeping up two dots, a song, and a self-buff, then hitting your cooldowns. Procs add some life into the rotation. Granted, this is all purely personal preference.
    (8)

  7. #7
    Player
    Snowaeth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    335
    Character
    Snow Ball
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrallmal View Post
    I think the aggravation that others are having is that BRD is in a really great place compared to pretty much all other DPS jobs - so it seems really petty and pointless to even discuss any modifications.

    That said, I like the system as it. Proc's give you that rush of spontaneous choice making. Will Heavy Shot proc into Straighter Shot or not? If it does, what will I do? Do I need to re-up Straight Shot? Should I burn it on Refulgent Arrow? What else do I have coming off cooldown in the next second or two? etc.

    Without procs, all you're doing is keeping up two dots, a song, and a self-buff, then hitting your cooldowns. Procs add some life into the rotation. Granted, this is all purely personal preference.
    I am indeed not denying that bard is in a fine spot compared to others, especially compared to its role counterpart.
    Yes machinist should be looked at, but it's not like all of Square Enix is gonna be looking into Machinist 24/7 and ignoring everything else, changes can happen to multiple jobs simultaneously.
    So why should bards not look into their job and see what can be changed/improved, are we supposed to wait until we are in a shit spot, or machinist in a good spot before even making any suggestions, where did this kind of rule come from?

    And once again, bard would not loose its proc's.
    Songs have their proc's untouched in my suggestion.

    As for Refulgent Arrow proc, there is no rush to it. It's a priority system, there is no guessing.
    You use your Heavy Shot, you know it can proc RA or not proc RA.
    RA has priority over SS/HS, so you know exactly what your next move is if it proc's and what your move is if it does not.
    But right now if you get lucky your dps goes through the roof and if you get bad RNG your dps plummets just below acceptable.
    You would also get a proper skill for Barrage, unlike this RNG fiesta.
    (0)

  8. #8
    Player
    AmandaLashaquoa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    68
    Character
    Amanda Lashaquoa
    World
    Diabolos
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 70
    You probably skipped the part where I said that a SS/RA proc every 3rd HS IS a buff, as small as it is and one that clearly no one agrees, it is so unnecessary... bard will not fall in a bad spot unless SE does something with it and I see no problem in MCH dealing more dmg over BRD because BRD is infinitely more useful in every single scenario than MCH due to its buffs and DPS, you have your opinion and if you're not satisfied with BRD, fine, but don't rage when peoples say that what you're suggesting (sure procs for SS/RA) is a buff and one that is way too much for what BRD is right now.
    You'll probably quote me saying again that "if we wait too much brd will stay behind mch" but we all know by now that MCH SHOULD be supposed to deal more DPS than BRD due to discrepancy in utilities.
    That is just what I think; Stop mentioning DoT Proc, I did talk about your SS/RA sure procs on all of my posts, don't ignore it o_O
    (2)
    If you think your life is bad, these days I've found out that I play with 295ms.

  9. #9
    Player
    Schyra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Soccer boppers
    Posts
    1
    Character
    Schyra Asceria
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 70

    I totally agree with all of that.

    I get really tired of hitting Heavy shot 7 times in a row, with nothing in the middle. I think unless they make crits or procs more consistent, it wouldn't have such dry moments.
    (0)

  10. #10
    Player
    Alexalibur's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    52
    Character
    Kevay Schoneke
    World
    Louisoix
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 90
    People are missing the point of this thread. A DPS increase is not the thing the OP was asking for, they're simply asking for a better gameplay. Spamming Heavy Shot isn't any sort of fun (I'm only level 60 though) until you get this one proc. Bard is definitely fine currently as a performing(heh) class, it has a small flaw however.
    (2)

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