Request: delay enemy actions , calibration feature

[Sylkis]

tldr version: Ifrit still hits even when I'm outside AoE, want more leeway. Delay Ifrit's attacks by the same amount of time we are delayed by.

First of all, my reason for this request is because of the current inevitable server delay.
Heres a video to show this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vb9BF50bPyA

The video explains why the UI feels sluggish - its because actions made by you are delayed by the game to keep you and the server in sync. However this can't be applied to movement or the game will feel broken (remember the slow cursor in beta before they added "hardware mouse" option?), so what is seen by the moving player and observers are different.

This has existed since release and I discovered it at that time while trying to dodge puk's backflip. Not being able to dodge a puk was not much of a problem, but it became so to many players during the Ifrit fight. Though you can see eruptions and pepperonis stay on the ground for 3 seconds , you only have less than a second to react to it. SE responded with a "Feedback request on Network Delay" , but the actual problem is not the network because it happens to every player, including ones in Japan.

This delay cannot be fixed until the server improves (or as I remember , when 2.0 comes) so I am suggesting a workaround.

Implement an optional feature in the menu. Have the player warp to an instanced area when they select this. The player will be required to run to to a point on the map and the client records the current time when the player reaches the point. The server also records the time when the players reaches the point which results in a difference in time between the two. Then the player is warped back to his original location.

All enemy weaponskills that target an area will be delayed further by the difference in time to that player, giving that player some time to dodge an attack.

The process is a bit of a hassle, so players can choose not to go through it and have no extra delay on enemy actions just like now.

Heres an example. If I have a delay of 2 seconds, so If I reached a certain point on the map on my client at 10:00:00, the server would see my character reaching that point at 10:00:02. Then weaponskills such as eruption and plumes would erupt 2 seconds later, but only for me.
Let's imagine that the devs use a test server which gives them next to no delay. The dev would reach a certain point on the map on their client at 10:00:00, the test server would see them reaching that point at 10:00:00. This means that weaponskills happen 0 seconds later, which gives them no leeway.
So anyone who happens to not experience this delay or "lag" get no extra time.

Thoughts?
Like if you want to see this feature!

[RemVye]

You obviously have a lot of experience with databases, programming, and networking - like totally.

[Bahn]

I like that you're trying to provide a fix, but I don't think that will be easy (or downright practical) to implement.

I'd honestly want to know what the heck Square is planning on doing to address this position update latency before 2.0. 2.0 is a year away. I don't think I'd be able to keep playing until 2.0 comes out if Square doesn't address it within the next several months.

[Sylkis]

A second alternative I can think of is reducing the actual damage AoE but keep the graphics the same size. So a line AoE damage for a conal looking attack, and a smaller circle damage AoE for eruption etc. The targeted player will still have to dodge but it would mean adjacent players would not have to anymore.

[Soukyuu]

The main problem about dodging those is the short duration of the enemy preparing the attack. Just increase it by 1-2 seconds and everything becomes dodge-able. Thing is, it will be still easier with people with low latency to dodge, potentially becoming a cakewalk for them.

Now, about Ifrit's plumes, that's a different problem. The server doesn't calculate your position but interpolates it. So if your interpolated position happens to be near a plume area, you're dead. They can't fix that unless they change the way server calculates your position, which most likely won't be possible until the engine switch. All we can do is hope they'll fix it in the new client.

[ispano]

I like that you're trying to provide a fix, but I don't think that will be easy (or downright practical) to implement.

I'd honestly want to know what the heck Square is planning on doing to address this position update latency before 2.0. 2.0 is a year away. I don't think I'd be able to keep playing until 2.0 comes out if Square doesn't address it within the next several months.

It's not latency.... If that was the issue, then it would affect people in Japan, but it doesn't. It's something to with a disconnect between what the client see and what the server sees, and when. It may be related to too many server calls during the process, or too much happening on the server end, who knows.

[Sylkis]

The main problem about dodging those is the short duration of the enemy preparing the attack. Just increase it by 1-2 seconds and everything becomes dodge-able. Thing is, it will be still easier with people with low latency to dodge, potentially becoming a cakewalk for them.

I'm not sure if you have read my posts or not, but what I am trying to suggest is a feature that increases the time depending on how much delay that person has, so a person with low "latency" would not get more time to dodge.

For the plumes, it is designed so that you can run out before it explodes. You can tell because on your client, you are able to get out of the AoE. We still take damage because the server thinks that we are where we were 2-3 seconds ago.

Like Ispano said, its not a latency problem. I think that this affects ALL players, except the devs who use a different server (probably). But just incase, this feature will not give players that have zero delay more time to dodge.

[Soukyuu]

Err... I said it's not a latency for the plumes myself. It's tied to the way the server calculates your position and I'm sure the devs get it too.

Your fix won't going to work simply because of the large overhead produced by it. The servers are overloaded atm already, making them apply the offset for each player online would increase the load even more.

Also, the latency depends on the time of the day and network load, which means you would have to recalibrate before every fight which is too much hassle.

It's easier to just take the delay into account, follow the chatlog (successful actions by enemies) and not look at the graphic effects (cracks), since that's what lags behind.

What I suggested in my post above was an example that could work, but would introduce unfair advantage to people with less latency.

[Sylkis]

Err... I said it's not a latency for the plumes myself. It's tied to the way the server calculates your position and I'm sure the devs get it too.

Your fix won't going to work simply because of the large overhead produced by it. The servers are overloaded atm already, making them apply the offset for each player online would increase the load even more.

Also, the latency depends on the time of the day and network load, which means you would have to recalibrate before every fight which is too much hassle.

It's easier to just take the delay into account, follow the chatlog (successful actions by enemies) and not look at the graphic effects (cracks), since that's what lags behind.

What I suggested in my post above was an example that could work, but would introduce unfair advantage to people with less latency.

It shouldn't matter where the plumes appear, even if you are right in the centre of it you should be able to dodge it , given enough time.

I imagine the workload on the server would be similar to enmity values, since each player has a different enmity value for multiple mobs. On top of that , the enmity is changing while this offset is not.

Yes I think that the delay will change depending on time of day, so I'm thinking if the game could calibrate automatically (eg calibrate when you move/do an action etc) without sending you into an instance. That was just an example of a possible fix. I don't know enough about the game to think of an exact solution, but the idea is there.

I find myself watching the chatlog often for boss fights and act accordingly, but not everyone can or wants to do this. Most people would rather watch the graphics rather than text right? I'm requesting this mainly for my LS members... Its very frustrating to see them die (and some complain about the unfairness) which leads them to giving up or thinking less about themselves which makes me sad =( .

[viion]

Yeah its an issue

But after seeing it for 9 years and never been fixed in FFXI I dont see it being fixed here because I am 100% certain the developers are incapable of setting it up correctly.

It is likely the way it is because movement was a low priority in initial development and movement in battle not originally planned by the previous developers. And they forgot when it come to make Ifrit.