How a Shapeshifter Could Work in FFXIV

[kikix12]

Loot pool logic is something that developers can easily "fix". The first though that comes to mind as just an example is giving guaranteed chest upon defeat of the boss that will give one piece of gear for whatever class you open it as. Something like the chests with Red Mage and Samurai gears, except only one piece and based on the current class, not for a fixed one.
After that, add one drop that is randomly chosen for people to need/greed/pass on. And voila. Whether there is one class or a hundred, each with their own gear, they'll get at least a piece.

Another example is trading. Have X pieces for other classes?! Exchange them for a piece from the set of a class of your choice. And suddenly, all those "failed" runs where all you got was gear useless for you will net you that one piece you wanted.

This is a problem in the players and developers heads (manifested as a result). It's not a problem in reality. I have no idea why people still, after all the MMO's out there, after all the solutions (some of them having part in this very game!) already found, still think there is such a problem as loot pool.

[Shippuu]

This is a problem in the players and developers heads (manifested as a result). It's not a problem in reality. I have no idea why people still, after all the MMO's out there, after all the solutions (some of them having part in this very game!) already found, still think there is such a problem as loot pool.

It's not a problem of players or the devs saying there isn't a solution, it's the practicality of of developing it for a game that comes out with such regular content updates. Resources and time are finite and from a development standpoint there is little logic in developing an entirely new system as well as increasing the workload of the asset team, itemization team, etc. When a simpler solution is on hand by simply creating jobs that continue to share the existing gear.

It's a matter of choosing the path of least resistance which is absolutely necessary in developing this game.

Later Edit, rather than make another post:

As for gear, there is no reason why they can't just use Intelligence gear. All they need is a trait that converts Intellect to VIT.

This is exactly the problem when people start talking how things would be so easy, they show they have no idea what they're on about. You are aware that Int gear already has Vitality on it, right? And that converting all the Int into Vitality would mean that tank has more HP than the others by quite a bit, on top of that, they now have no primary DPS stat to go off of.

There are plenty of reasons a tank cannot easily use Intelligence gear, many of which I've already listed.

Complicated? What? It's an tag/index, the stats attached to which could be made dependent on the equipping class, e.g. item12312a, item12312b. You can adjust how it works for the tank equipping it without touching how it works for the DPS equipping it whatsoever. This is done frequently in other MMOs.

It's complicated in the sense of itemization, and on the end users (the players), having to consider equipment that has different stats depending on which job is wearing it. It creates a massive gearing issue between the jobs sharing it, you're still in essence creating 2 different pieces of equipment except with the added development of creating a system to easily display these stats. It still doesn't broach the idea of how it's generally a bad idea for different roles to have to compete with each other for loot. Part of a perk of playing a tank or healer is just that, knowing in most content you are relatively uncontested for drops. This works as a positive incentive for players to play tanks/healers, and taking that away is a step backwards towards getting more people to play the role(s).

but this too is in a few too many MMOs to call "impossible"

Please do point out where I ever said it was impossible, because I absolutely never did.

[Kazrah]

I don't think shapeshifters really fit into the lore. However a caster tank would be cool. Also you are super creative! You should be working for a gaming company.

Thanks! I did have another concept for a caster tank, but Green Mage has a bit of difficulty differentiating itself thematically with what we have for White Mage in FFXIV. I am curious though as to why you think a shapeshifter wouldn't fit into the lore, especially since lore can usually be curbed so some concepts could be implemented.

Please do point out where I ever said it was impossible, because I absolutely never did.

You may not have said it, but the negative attitude you've displayed in every single post you've put into this thread certainly screams it in volumes. Just makes me glad that it's not the whiny pessimists who make this game better than its competitors, but the optimists who can take fascinating--sometimes even different ideas--and put them into the game.

[Zarabeth]

Thanks! I did have another concept for a caster tank, but Green Mage has a bit of difficulty differentiating itself thematically with what we have for White Mage in FFXIV. I am curious though as to why you think a shapeshifter wouldn't fit into the lore, especially since lore can usually be curbed so some concepts could be implemented.

I suppose you're right, they could make one, I just don't think shapeshifter when I think FF. In ffxi blue mages could tank some. I'd love to see a blue mage tank.

[Kazrah]

I suppose you're right, they could make one, I just don't think shapeshifter when I think FF. In ffxi blue mages could tank some. I'd love to see a blue mage tank.

I have a feel a lot of people have that mentality on shapeshifters in Final Fantasy. My guess is because they didn't play Final Fantasy Tactics Advance.



This is the Morpher class from that game, and the inspiration behind my concept for Sorcerer. It would fight by assuming a stance of a monster and then actually transforming into that monster when performing an attack from that monster, and it had access to every ability that monster could use. The only thing I wasn't a fan of about it was its outfit since it just felt far too generic.

Now Blue Mage was in that game too, but like most Blue Mages in Final Fantasy's history, it wore lighter outfits and was about as tanky as any other average melee class, being able to take just enough hits to learn a spell without dying. Between that, the lack of tanking abilities in its average arsenal throughout the whole series and the fact that less than half of all the types of Blue Mages in every Final Fantasy game ever made had absolutely no choice but to get hit by an ability to learn it (pretty sure even BLU of FFXI could still see a spell to learn it as well) was why I usually made my Blue Mage concepts as melee DPS rather than as tanks. Now that's not to say Blue Mage couldn't be made as a tank--with how Red Mage was brought in, I think anything's on the table now--but there may be some reservations when looking at job traditions throughout Final Fantasy history.

[Zarabeth]

Snip.

You're correct, at least in my case. I have not played FF Tactics Advanced. That morpher is adorable. In FFXI Blue Mages had to learn their spells from monsters which is why I never liked the class and didn't play it. Since I was a RDM I did end up helping my BLU friends get their spells though. I hated it!
I still think a BLU as a tank job could be done fairly easily and the shifter idea is growing on me.

[Shippuu]

You may not have said it, but the negative attitude you've displayed in every single post you've put into this thread certainly screams it in volumes.

That's not how it works buddy, but ok. Just because you don't like that someone poked glaring holes in your idea that you thought you had really thought out doesn't mean you get to put words in their mouth that they never said.

Just makes me glad that it's not the whiny pessimists who make this game better than its competitors, but the optimists who can take fascinating--sometimes even different ideas--and put them into the game.

Well then I guess I'm glad the clueless dreamers with no sense of realism or understanding of the reality of the situations have zero say on anything being added to the game.

[Kazrah]

snip

Okay then, let's see you come with something. I'll wait until then to take your criticisms seriously from now on.

[Shippuu]

Okay then, let's see you come with something. I'll wait until then to take your criticisms seriously from now on.

I don't need to jump through any hoops. You're incapable of actually taking realistic criticism or looking at things from the bigger picture from a developmental standpoint.

Instead of adressing the entirely valid and logical criticisms you would instead prefer to make such immature responses. You clearly aren't interested in having your ideas challenged in the slightest likely because of your own ego, so we're done here.

[Kazrah]

so we're done here.

I'll take criticism, and have no problem admitting that yes, there are flaws just like every other job in the game. That's why I bring my concepts to these forums: to get feedback. Not just the positive remarks, but the constructive criticisms that can show not just flaws in the concept, but how to cover them make the concept better overall.

What I won't take though is the sheer arrogance you've been bringing into this thread while offering absolutely nothing positive or productive to the concept. From nearly every poster in this thread and the other job threads I've done, I've learned something I can take away from to apply to future job concepts, especially for Blue Mage. Instead of saying something like "this doesn't really work, how about trying it this way" or "maybe if it was done with something different, that would help", you've just been nothing but condescending, and I have no intention of dealing with it.