Class Uniqueness & Advance Class System

[Chibino]

thinking about uniqueness in compare to other Final Fantasy games. jobs had a unique abilities that is class only, also in FFxi there was some passive abilities that was class only and some that carried over when you sub-job.

FFxiv doesnt have any class only passives and there isnt any unique class only active abilities either. there is a need for passive class only abilities that grow with rank and the passive abilities gained through marks would have a training type quest line that may show how to properly use "heavy..." skill or how to convert mnd to dex, while adding some lore. but what is also lacking is class only active abilities similar to FFxi's 2hour abilities. i would like to see some class only abilities maybe one 1hour & also one or two 30 min timers. good example of some passive class only abilities would be:

gladiator = physical def up / base damage up
marauder = parry up / ?????
pugilist = evasion up / attack rate up
lancer = parry up / critical rate up
archer = evasion up / physical accuracy up
conjurer = magic def up / magic potency
thaumaturge = magic resistance / magic critical rate

i you noticed i used 1 defense passive and 1 offensive passive but other types of passives could also be like MP regen, increase max magic or physical damage, treasure hunter (thief), etc...

name changes could be a more generic naming standard thus saving classic names for a more prestige harder to claim classes.

Gladiator = Squire/Soldier/Knight (any of these are fine)
Marauder = Fighter
Pugilist = Brawler (new to any FF series)
Lancer = Lancer (still a good generic name)
Archer = Archer (still a good generic name)

while magic classes are harder to give generic names to because most FF series white & black mage was the lowest form of magic user with the exception to FF tactic's chemist which evolved into white & black mage.

so thinking about what system will easily fit into the current system with minor tweaking. with the current classes not one class has all the skills needed to be a classic job. a good example would be thief, you would need trick attack from lancer, sneak attack from pugilist and flee from archer. keep in mind they did lower the SP needed for 1-30, so ranks 20-30 would be ideal to having multiple classes needed as a pre-req to access a quest line to unlock an advance job. this system would be similar to FF tactic's job system & FFxi's quest line.

leveling/ranking is normal in any MMO and only asking to unlock advance jobs at rank50 with out any other challenges would be to easy and the value of the achievement would drop. yes this system of combination of FF tactics and FFxi would take longer and harder to achieve but this system will still keep the flexibility of crossing skills over while retaining the value of having unlocked an advance job. saying you have reached max rank on an advance job would just increase that value even higher.


Weapons

personally i would also like to see some flexibility with weapons. i think either all classes should have a 2-handed weapon, 1-handed weapon and access to sub classes like shields/dual wield or break the the weapons away from classes, so classes have a more variety of choice to choose from. maybe i want to use a 2-handed boardsword as a paladin or maybe as a dark knight. it isnt that i just want to be able to mix & match skills but maybe i want to be able to mix & match weapons with other classes. sure artifact (tier) gear can favor 1 or 2 weapon to a class but non-artifact can be used more loosely among the classes.

[Chibino]

bump up

i would like to see how some people feel about this

[Drakong]

I do see your ideas, but I see other post up about advance class ideas also.

Although about the weapon system is what FFXIV is missing out on. They need to bring back like you said about the one hand and two hand weapons. I also like to see two hand sword, katanas, two hand hammer and any other weapons as to different job classes. I am not sure, but I think SE lied to us about equipping two sword like dual wield on FFXIV. I thought they was going to have that, but I guess not. It would be nice to have that back on.

[Kilta_Firelotus]

One thing this system will bring is "job of the week" and long waits for parties. Part of the reason classes are not as defined was the ability to create your own. Due to all the elitist brainwashing ppl went through in past mmo, no one saw much "use" to do so. One thing everyone hated in ffxi was waiting hours because their job wasn't the popular one. Due to again all the min/maxers. I rather play a class I feel good in playing and do what I can for the group as said class. I don't want to end up lvling classes the way ppl "require" me to. Like I was great as rdm when I was melee, I got shunned for playing melee even though I did everything else and rested when needed.
The current system was to focus on looking for other players not rdm whm etc. And disband if none are seeking. Or even yell at the only rdm online who hates back line curing.

[Drakong]

One thing this system will bring is "job of the week" and long waits for parties. Part of the reason classes are not as defined was the ability to create your own. Due to all the elitist brainwashing ppl went through in past mmo, no one saw much "use" to do so. One thing everyone hated in ffxi was waiting hours because their job wasn't the popular one. Due to again all the min/maxers. I rather play a class I feel good in playing and do what I can for the group as said class. I don't want to end up lvling classes the way ppl "require" me to. Like I was great as rdm when I was melee, I got shunned for playing melee even though I did everything else and rested when needed.
The current system was to focus on looking for other players not rdm whm etc. And disband if none are seeking. Or even yell at the only rdm online who hates back line curing.

You do have a point there about hard finding party do to FFXI experience. But I just want to say one thing, if they could only make the game where equipping weapon give bonuses to certain jobs only without switching your job. And also abilities should give bonuses to certain jobs too. That way you can be a black mage tanker if you want or a DD. It will bring a whole new game-play. what do u think?

[Chibino]

One thing this system will bring is "job of the week" and long waits for parties. Part of the reason classes are not as defined was the ability to create your own. Due to all the elitist brainwashing ppl went through in past mmo, no one saw much "use" to do so. One thing everyone hated in ffxi was waiting hours because their job wasn't the popular one. Due to again all the min/maxers. I rather play a class I feel good in playing and do what I can for the group as said class. I don't want to end up lvling classes the way ppl "require" me to. Like I was great as rdm when I was melee, I got shunned for playing melee even though I did everything else and rested when needed.
The current system was to focus on looking for other players not rdm whm etc. And disband if none are seeking. Or even yell at the only rdm online who hates back line curing.

i agree but it wouldnt be because of this system, it would be because of the large request to redefine classes to be more unique. anytime you make something more unique then other there will always be favorites and min/max players will always favor some classes. but adding class only passives and unique class only active abilities similar to FF 11's 2hrs even if the rest of the abilities is swappable it should still give enough uniqueness to each class giving incentive to players to play one class over another. but most of the skills can skill cross over to other classes.

personally class/job should be balance as if it was balancing for pvp setting even if there is no pvp, comparing classes with classes, why because this reduces top classes and increases lower end classes. then monsters should be adjust to the classes and not adjusting classes to monsters this causes imbalance where people start favoring classes that have advantages. of course some monsters weaknesses will have some classes slightly better advantage because of the monster weakness not because they are better class then the rest of the classes with out taking monster weakness in consideration.

[Chibino]

You do have a point there about hard finding party do to FFXI experience. But I just want to say one thing, if they could only make the game where equipping weapon give bonuses to certain jobs only without switching your job. And also abilities should give bonuses to certain jobs too. That way you can be a black mage tanker if you want or a DD. It will bring a whole new game-play. what do u think?

even with the current system because some gear favors some classes. it is hard to have a caster tank with out putting the effort to get the skills needed for damage mitigation like protect, stoneskin, defender & rampart even then you still need items like tabard which is an "all class" war garb. even then you have to make sure vit is capped out also just to make sure you have enough HP/def from stats so you can absorb more damage, giving healers a chance to get heals in. i have stood on both healer and tank side for most games i played to understand the full aspect of building hate, controlling hate, when tanks need extra attention from healers and when healers can conserve.

personally i am currently setup to have vit capped 1 rank above my current rank so as i rank up it is still capped. the rest of my points are thrown into mind way passed the cap which cap only effects max MP, there is no cap for mind to heal. 2mnd = 1 heal which converts to 1mind equals 0.5 heal and 3mag potency = 1 heal which is 1mag potency = 0.33 heal, clearly mind has an advantage over magic potency.

[Drakong]

I do understand about controlling hate or building hate when tanking a monster, but this is the catch, a black mage tanker should have enough magic damage to get hate, after all black mage are DD. And I do understand the situation about the gears right now that is not much the way I wanted if they where to change the game this way. They would have to create a whole new gears and weapon system where certain gears and weapons favors jobs.

For example:
Blackmage DD are to equip with magic abilities that will only favor a magic caster DD role.
Blackmage Tank are to gear up with only certain weapons, shields, armors that will favor melee tank role.

A Blackmage Tank may not be as strong as a Paladin Tank, but it can get the job done with the extra bonuses. This may look weird, but think as abilities and gears should be the two main role to give bonuses to a job class if you use the right abilities bonuses or gears and weapons.

[Chibino]

I do understand about controlling hate or building hate when tanking a monster, but this is the catch, a black mage tanker should have enough magic damage to get hate, after all black mage are DD. And I do understand the situation about the gears right now that is not much the way I wanted if they where to change the game this way. They would have to create a whole new gears and weapon system where certain gears and weapons favors jobs.

For example:
Blackmage DD are to equip with magic abilities that will only favor a magic caster DD role.
Blackmage Tank are to gear up with only certain weapons, shields, armors that will favor melee tank role.

A Blackmage Tank may not be as strong as a Paladin Tank, but it can get the job done with the extra bonuses. This may look weird, but think as abilities and gears should be the two main role to give bonuses to a job class if you use the right abilities bonuses or gears and weapons.

with the current system you just need marauder's passive +hate trait that any tank should have.