The novice network needs reworked, and a way to rate mentors!

[gweyowmi]

I left the novice network soon after joining.
IT IS NOT HELPFUL!

Mentors tend to talk about high level things, and when I saw someone ask a question they would get the worst answer possible.

They answer the questions in ways that would require the sprout to have prior knowledge, is the point of the NN to educate sprouts?

"how do I get __ mount?"

"beast tribe quests"

"what are beast tribe quests? Will I need to be a max level?"

then the mentors changed topic to high level content conversation between themselves.

I cant remember exactly what another question was, but it was something along the lines of do i need to do _____ or ___ to attaine ______?

and the mentor just said "no"

and never continued into a more in depth answer


when I pointed out they should stop being so dismissive to the sprouts they said new players took the channel too seriously.

why should there be political talk and arguments between mentors in an NN chat? IT IS FOR NEW PLAYERS TO LEARN THE GAME NO? not for mentors to talk about end content raids as if its their FC.

Also there was ONE mentor i really liked, they would play devils advocate and tell the sprouts that no, they didnt need to grind tomes, or do high end content to still be a valued player, they can do other things to get gear good enough to unlock hard modes etc n still play with friends, telling the sprouts that this game IS casual friendly, and also hard core friendly, which was so refreshing to hear someone give so many reasons as to how a casual player can still feel adequate.

Every time they spoke up though it seemed a particular player who raided heavily would bash them and try to start arguments.

WHY CAN WE NOT RATE MENTORS?

I have been in dungeons where a mentor just afked a ton, stood in AOE area etc not caring, not healing that much unless someone was close to death.

Or you say I am a new player, havent been here before, so they tell me stand on the gold circle when it lights up. and jumped up n down on the gold circle on the ground so i went over there n jumped to show them i followed what they said. they pulled boss and i was pleased thinking i wouldnt die stupidly.

So i did, but problem was that also there were two light up spots on the same gold circle, and a rune that had a lit up circle under it. I wasnt sure so I just picked one lit up spot by myself n I died, I was like... was I suppose to be the rune? n they said yes


well you never said you were suppose to be in a rune.


OR when i got PTSD from the moogle trial bc we wiped 7x finally i said "I think were doing something wrong?"

then suddenly everyone argued over the order to kill them in, and we finally did it on the 10th attempt

now i avoid dungeons unless its with my FC.

I left the novice network almost as soon as I got in it, but see such bad behavior from the mentors in dungeons its silly.

I understand not having a system that is a bad rating to go along with the commendations, since new players might get unfairly judged.

But if you are a mentor I think it should really be an option.

[Vrahjin]

Yes, the whole Mentor thing is a nice concept, but poorly executed. It's a real sad state of affairs. There are decent/good mentors out there, but, as with many other things, the absolutely crappy ones seem to be in the majority. And little to no consequences for them (unless they break any major rules and it can be proven, I guess - can't remember of ever hearing it happen though).

[Valenth]

As a mentor myself I tend to avoid the NN exactly because of this. I left the network at one point after a situation happened where mentors got annoyed with one asking a few question and telling them to "google it". I pointed out the channel is there to help new players but a few mentors were being specifically dismissive of that comment, resulting in not only some mentors ridiculing me (and the person asking), but also some new players feeling the need to do so. Ever since I prefer a more hands-on experience mentoring when I run into new people in dungeon, asking them if they'd like me to explain things. It works a lot better for me like this, this wandering hermit style if you will. I run into a lot more people actually appreciating the help.

Sad thing though, I tell them to join but be wary of the NN, still advising them to at least check it out. I also tell them they can report any dismissive or outright rude mentors in there, but I feel it's unfortunate I actually have to mention this to them. :/

[Lexie]

although this character is not a mentor yet my other one is and after a situation I just encountered with people I once thought to be kind and friendly I was left aghast it was bad enough that I really do not want any further contact with them, it was embarrassing that here I was the only non mentor or sprout in the group and the only person who was willing to be patient and kind despite the errors made by both the mentors and sprouts. With people flying mentor banners like that it makes it seem like our gaming community to new players is quite the toxic one and most times that is not the case, but one situation like the one I encountered earlier on today could probably cause the player to stop playing completely because they were a new player new to the dungeon and quite a fast learner once we did something he learned it, but instead the two of them was just bashing him for his low dps non stop without offering anything constrictive to help him with it, and it made me angry that they could still have a crown to be considered mentors when they acted like that.
Ofc here are some suggestions I have maybe to help out the mentor system in its current state...
1. Remind people that parser are considered third party programs, and even just using them in game is indeed an actionable offense...
2. Remove the reward tier for going in as a mentor to a party, yes there will be less mentors out there that do not have it in them to do it if there is nothing in it for them but turning our community into a toxic one by rewarding the behavior like I saw today makes me feel like this is a necessary step, I will still become a mentor when I can and I know several other would as well to help the players learning how to play the game, whether there is anything in it for me or not it will make for a better community overall.
3. add a strike system where a sprout can report a mentor for inappropriate behavior honestly I think this will help the most a certain amount of strikes causes the person to permanently loose their mentor status or loose their ability to gain anything from the mentor system, or some type of repercussion that would help new players know that we do no want this community to become toxic.

[Lildragora]

Not a mentor, but really like this idea as I have seen my fair share of rude Mentors in just random duties.

[Kaurhz]

Best post I'v seen in a very long time.

[brogettoku]

the novice network is especially bad when you ask a question and are told to google it, the whole mentor/newb system is flawed anyway, mentors can get good ratings and maintain their status simply from having friends who vote them up all the time which is exactly how mentors are there in the first place, they aren't exactly there because they want to help but because they want the prestige (read - shiny icons) it comes with

i literally left the NN today because i was told to google

[Spiroglyph]

I sort of dislike the mentor chat in general :/ as nice as the idea sounds (conceptually), the chat is generally filled up with mentors talking about their latest achievements and going on too in-depth explanations of "current meta" that are too elaborate for any new player to actually follow. Or, at least that was what I saw in my last two alt characters, as I usually don't join the mentor chat on my main.

Imo ideally a mentor system should help forge a healthy bond between -A- mentor and -A- mentee, rather than shoving everyone together in a chat and let the whole concept derail into something else.

Example of what I would have liked the mentor system to have been:

-Upon choosing to join the mentor network, a new player will automatically be assigned to an available mentor (a mentor that is not currently assigned any other mentees)
-The "novice chat" would then be a chat solely for the private use of that mentor and mentee
-This "bond" should be able to be broken if necessary (for example if a new player has interest in PvP and mentor has little knowledge of this content, or if the new player and mentor simply do not get along for whatever reason - there should however be a "cooldown" to this, so if you'd broken your mentorship with mentor B and be assigned a mentor A immediately after, you'd only be able to break mentorship with mentor A after one or two days, or something to that effect)
-Mentorship lasts until mentee reaches x level (at the current point level 60 would be a good "stop", or until you lose your leaf), and at this point your mentorship ends and you "rate" your mentor
-Mentors with "negative" or "too low" ratings would then be unable to keep their mentor status and take on new pupils.

I genuinely had a "bad" time when I was in the network as a new player on my alt - sometimes the conversations would deviate so far from "new player doubts" that I'd feel extremely out of place, and uncomfortable with having to actually ask anything.
Not all mentors are like this, of course! I DID come across some cool people - answering posted questions, joining in progress duties, helping people clear content at a slower pace (namely with castrum and prae) - but yes, I do think the entire thing could be reworked.

I get that devs are dead scared of offending the community in any possible manner (no parses, no posting names, no calling people out on poor performance, no nothing), so I see that they'd be against a rating system for mentors, but right now the entire thing feels like an afterthought stapled onto the game.

EDIT: oh, and if you -MUST- add pretty mounts and titles as rewards, then a rating system makes even more sense.

[brogettoku]

snip

I like this idea. My fondest memories from MMOs are when I was lost and encountered someone who was experienced and knowledgeable, and we teamed up to play together. They got to feel smart and great by teaching me and I got to feel welcome and optimistic for the future. With many of these players, we formed friendships that become more than "tell me how to do X".

If a person is interested in helping they should consider new players will not automatically know how to do everything if you tell them how to do one thing.

The whole point of being a mentor is to welcome people into the game that might run away scared after getting stuck. So this means you have to actively CONTINUALLY help, so having a specific person or small group whom you are helping is the best way to achieve success. Mentor's have become so hostile because they are tired of answering the same questions without seeing how their help is actually contributing to success.

[Niwashi]

Imo ideally a mentor system should help forge a healthy bond between -A- mentor and -A- mentee, rather than shoving everyone together in a chat

There are a few drawbacks to a system like that.

The first is that mentors don't live in the game any more than anybody else. They're not available 24/7, and if a new player were assigned to just one of them, then there's no mentor system at all during the times that player isn't online. The more flexible system we have now lets new players get advice and help from whichever mentors are on and available at the time they need that advice/help.

Anther issue is that no one mentor is going to be equally able to answer every question. Sure, pretty much any of them could answer basic stuff like where to unlock chocobo companions, but if someone doesn't understand how a skill works or where to use it, mentors who actually play that class or job might be able to give a better answer. So maybe the one best able to give crafting advice isn't the one best able to give advice on using Astrologian cards or whatever. The Novice Network puts sprouts in touch with numerous mentors with a wide range of expertise, increasing the chance that one of them will be able to help them.

Then there's the fact that, with multiple people there, it's possible to identify when bad information is being given out. If one mentor answers a question with outdated info that changed in the last patch, or is otherwise simply wrong (or just incomplete), then others can chime in and point out the more up-to-date or complete answer. A one-on-one system wouldn't allow for that to happen so a lot of new players would be getting bad information and advice.

The Novice Network is also important in putting new players in touch with other new players. That's sometimes a better place to get advice and usually a better place to get players to run content together than the mentors are.



The problems with our current mentor system and the Novice Network come about by lack of accountability, not because there's more than one person available for a new player to get advice from.