Tank Balance Achieved?

[Shinkyo]

Snip

I agree that PLD/DRK or PLD/WAR doesn't really make a difference and that's why the current situation is probably the most balanced we've ever had even though there's a lot to complain about.
DRK/WAR are both good as a PLD sidekick and that's the whole issue, we're only sidekicks and can never shine as much as PLD.

[BluexBird]

I've always played Warrior. It's been my only class in over a year. I'm doing savage right now and honestly, I don't really see the difference when I'm paired with a Paladin or a Dark Knight. I've seen both good and bad ones, with some Paladins ending up with terrible damage, and some Dark Knights almost coming close to my own.

It's a hard call to make, though. I think the only people who can say anything are the healers, since a Paladin's utility has a direct effect on their abilities.

[Aomine1992]

Tbh other than the fact that drk rotation is much easier than war, I don't think pld/drk is necessarily better than pld/war in o3s and o4s. For o3s if you main tank as a war you don't really need to do any tank swap since holmgang will be up for every other critical hit, enabling you to stack at least 3 cds for the remaining critical hits.

I just want to point out that no tank swapping should be happening in V3s, critical hit won't kill you even without awareness I usually MT as a DRK and have no issues surviving the whole time.

[aleph_null]

I just want to point out that no tank swapping should be happening in V3s, critical hit won't kill you even without awareness I usually MT as a DRK and have no issues surviving the whole time.

You still won't mitigate as well as a war though. A war can do nearly the entire fight as MT in deliverance without putting much strain on the healers (probably do a tank swap near the end since you'd want to burn rampart + vengeance on the ninja adds without using defiance).

Critical hits come in intervals of somewhere around 1.5-2 mins, so awareness and shadow wall are up every two critical hits, rampart is up for every critical hit, and other than those your guaranteed mitigations are TBN and grit. War can do vengeance + awareness + thrill + raw intuition for the first one, use rampart for spellblade holy (which hits quite hard and is followed by the knife waltz), holmgang the second one, use rampart and raw intuition to mitigate auto attacks, vengeance + awareness for the third one, holmgang the fourth one, and so on. You have raw intuition, rampart for auto attack mitigation, while still saving thrill for your berserk'd upheavals. War's defensive toolkit is just too good for this fight.

That said, I think pld/drk might be the optimal composition for this fight, with tank swaps and maybe cover.

WAR/DRK in HW weren't meta because of their DPS, it's because of Delirium / Path / Reprisal... all mitigation skills...

Right and wrong. Dps is still the biggest reason why war/drk was meta. Sure path is nice for progression, but it's pretty much useless after like 2-3 weeks into farm. Eye alone in 3.x would've been enough to make war meta for farm/speedkill just from the sheer amount of raid dps gain it offers, either in a group with or without nin. Even in fights that were physical dmg heavy like a7s, a9s, a10s, war/drk was the optimal composition for farm.

[Tankstuff]

war is just annoying to play now, because all our eggs are in one basket with berserk/IR and the potencies on the combos are garbage compared to pld/drk. Also why was pld allowed to keep dots but the other tanks lost theirs? lol. Its just stupid, hey I want to do my opener on O3S better pray i dont get marked and have to run away from the boss and miss my biggest burst damage window. Its cool being pld though your dots keep on ticking and you throw out ranged fell cleaves so mechanics dont even effect you haha ecks dee

[Shinkyo]

snip

yup, it's better for WAR to open with an upheaval and delay IR/Zerk by a full combo so you mitigate the risk on being locked by the mechanic.
PLD could also be affected by mechanics if it happens during Requiescat but to a less extent.

There's a lot of fight specific planning and optimizations for WAR to do good DPS. It's more punishing that it is rewarding but it makes the class more interesting to me.

[Tankstuff]

yup, it's better for WAR to open with an upheaval and delay IR/Zerk by a full combo so you mitigate the risk on being locked by the mechanic.
PLD could also be affected by mechanics if it happens during Requiescat but to a less extent.

There's a lot of fight specific planning and optimizations for WAR to do good DPS. It's more punishing that it is rewarding but it makes the class more interesting to me.

which would be perfectly fine with me IF optimizing dps for war was significantly higher, but you do all this work and planning just to break even with plds or maybe beat them by 100-200 dps, its a joke. I went from having fun with it to just being frustrated during prog and swapping to drk

[Shinkyo]

Snip

That was only true in Gordias when DPS checks were insane and PLD was really underpowered.
Once PLD got buffed, they were doing comparable DPS as WAR/DRK and dps check weren't as tight.
PLD could have been viable at that time but their utility (and I include RoH, Delirium, Path debuffs) didn't fit well with the magic damage nature of fights. Hence, they were still left out.

I ain't saying that divine veil or the likes will make or break a fight but it still gives you more tools to recover or tackle a situation.
In V4S, the heal checks are really tight and divine veil, intervention and Passage of arms (and any other raid mitigation) do help significantly while we're undergeared.

[MyaValentine]

I ain't saying that divine veil or the likes will make or break a fight but it still gives you more tools to recover or tackle a situation.
In V4S, the heal checks are really tight and divine veil, intervention and Passage of arms (and any other raid mitigation) do help significantly while we're undergeared.

I will take your word on that since i have not reached V4S yet and my opinion on PLD might change but as I stated on the OP so far PLD utility hasn't really do much for my group since we have exelent healers kinda blows any mitigation I can offer out of the water.

[Shinkyo]

I will take your word on that since i have not reached V4S yet and my opinion on PLD might change but as I stated on the OP so far PLD utility hasn't really do much for my group since we have exelent healers kinda blows any mitigation I can offer out of the water.

Then I'm looking forward to your group getting into V4S :-)
Our healers are excellent and have had no issues healing V1-3S while DPSing a ton. I consider our healers among the top players of my static.
V4S is the fun still I've heard them say "I can't heal this...".
Took them quite some time to optimize heals and get the whole group to use every mitigation ability we have.
Also trying to convince DPS to meld VIT.