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  1. #1
    Player
    Praesul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    365
    Character
    Praesul Presul
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyrist View Post
    A Black Mage needs a full 2 GCDs to cast two spells. This means, if a target runs out of range or line of sight in one GCD, they miss that second attack. It is much less likely for a Red Mage to do so - because of the mechanics of Dualcast. So yes, it's two global cooldowns, but only one of which is required to be frontloaded by the Red Mage, who can spend the other dipping in cover or following up with an off global cooldown skill (such as a heal, bolt, shifting targets with monomachy etc
    BLM can do the same damn thing. Fire IV is 2.18 secs, and can be immediately followed up by an instant blizzard I (which is instant cast because being in the opposite element makes it instant), that's 3500 potency in 2 GCDs. And let's not ignore the fact that BRD and MCH can do the same thing with no cast times at all whatsoever.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyrist View Post
    Same goes for the Melee risk calculation. Red Mage's melee cooldown for the first two skills is 1.5s as opposed to the 2.18 of a traited spellcast. No other class has this truncated GCD. You asked why spare the time to use Flunge? Because it's ALSO on this truncated GCD and deals 1000 potency to its target. It dosen't interrupt anything, it hits as hard as Jolt II, and has a faster recast to boot.
    If you use Flunge, you're stalling your combo by 1.5 secs for whatever arbitrary reason. So now your full combo goes from (1.5 + 1.5 + 2.3) to 6.8 with the addition of flunge because it's on GCD. That's an extra 1.5 seconds that you're vulnerable, unless you use your "escape" early just to get away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyrist View Post
    Red Mage is all about exploiting damage windows. It's not a factor someone who does not play the job well can understand just looking at potency alone without and understanding of how that plays out in real time.
    Literally every single damage dealing job is about exploiting damage windows.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyrist View Post
    Yes, a Red Mage only gets 2750 at a time at range before 'risking' melee range, that's more than enough poke to execute someone before they turn the corner though, because the full of that burst happens at the 2.18s mark, not the 4.36s.
    All the other ranged jobs can poke for about the same amount, while also being able to move BRD/MCH don't even require initial cast times, because they have none.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyrist View Post
    And a person who tries to close in on RDM to attack them, risks getting burst 9650 in less than seven seconds ( CaC > 1.5 >1.5 > 2.3 Displacement > Finish) and that includes a free retreat before the finish.
    7 Seconds is not burst. No one is going to go 7 seconds without recieving even one heal during that time unless they're just caught out alone, and jobs shouldn't be balanced around the "caught with their pants down" factor. The most you could argue is that using the first two parts of your combo counts as prep, and then redoublement + Verflare/Verholy is the real burst because it comes in two GCDs. 5750 potency is nothing to scoff at in two GCDs that's for sure, but it comes with the requirement of having to hit people in melee range first to even use it, on top of having to build the right amount of black/white mana to get there. Other ranged jobs have similar requirements (BLM has polyglot, SMN is gated by Aetherflow and Dreadwyrm etc etc.) but they don't have the extra requirement of having to be in melee range to use their abilities.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyrist View Post
    Can a Black Mage outdamage that? Sure, but he's stationary the entire time, must invest more time beforehand to access the full burst and susceptible to having to reinvest the cast time if he is at all interrupted before cast is complete. Meanwhile, each step in RDM's burst combo is instant, you could stun, sleep, and silence him sequentially and unless you were perfect in your CC timing or outright killed him, he'd still get the full combo off.
    Any job with a cast time is, even RDM is at the mercy of LoSing. I'll give RDM that the initial cast itself from jolt/ver spells is harder to avoid since it casts faster, but their damage is low. Unless someone is REALLY that close to death the "guaranteed poke" you get is not worth much.

    Also you don't have to CC any job perfectly to stop their burst. You just have to cc them at any point when they're doing it. RDM jumps in, gets stunned either during the first or second part of their combo for example, that gives time for a heal on the target, now that kill is gone. Of course most jobs are susceptible to this, right? But proper melee like take MNK for instance, have one GCD + 2 off GCD burst. 1250 gcd + 2000 off gcd + 2500 off GCD. 5750 potency BEFORE buffs (greased lightning and riddle of fire) in one GCD.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyrist View Post
    All these factors need to be considered before crying wolf that Red Mage needs further buffs. Its damage is very flexible and it has deceptively powerful burst, on top of the fact that it is highly mobile. Yes, as a necessity, but that makes it all the more difficult for enemies to keep track of. I'd say if anything it could use a bit more utility in its kit, though an AoE Weight on global cooldown that deals more than its base cast to the first target makes it difficult to chose what other utility to go for.
    It's damage during melee range is okay, towards the end of it when the actual burst happens. It's damage outside of that is still abysmal though. There's hardly any flexibility either, the job is designed to build resource from range and then blow their load in melee, no ifs ands or butts. It's this half-ass hybrid that can't do either thing right. Less sustain and burst in range, less burst in melee than proper melee. There is absolutely NOTHING RDM can do better than other jobs, but it can do a bunch of things in a mediocre manner.
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    Last edited by Praesul; 07-26-2017 at 03:41 PM.