PLD Consolidated Feedback Thread

[Falar]

The only thing I'd still request for Paladin be changed is Swordoath, emphasis on SWORDoath ONLY, being changed into OGCD. Warriors and DRKs can flawlessly and without GCD loss switch from Tankstance into DPSstance and it would be great if the same would treatment would extent to Paladin.
Not saying it's absolutely necessary and Paladin is still better than WAR/DRK without that change, but it would be a nice change non-the-less.

Grit is ON the GCD.

[Pyitoechito]

Grit is ON the GCD.

Grit is odd. It's on the GCD to activate, and you have to wait for the GCD to remove it, but removing Grit does not count as a GCD action.

[Lyth]

Grit is odd. It's on the GCD to activate, and you have to wait for the GCD to remove it, but removing Grit does not count as a GCD action.

Grit also costs 18% of DRK's MP instead of 8% on PLD, which also gains MP passively from regen and can replace the MP cost within the span two GCDs (and only spends MP in a very specific window). It also cancels BW, regardless of whether you just extended it with Delirium. Contrast this to Shield Oath, which does not cancel FoF and allows for FoF to be activated in either stance.

I would like Sword Oath to be oGCD, but only if they first remove the MP costs from both DRK and PLD's stances (at a bare minimum, although BW and BP need to be addressed as well). Grit and Shield Oath should stay on the GCD, however.

[Thoro39]

Grit is ON the GCD.

Read again.
DRK's do not lose a GCD when switching FROM Tankstance TO Non-tankstance/DPS Stance as I laid it out in my original post.

Yeah, let's make the best tank even better.

I'm a strong advocate on disliking how overpowered Paladin is in comparison to DRK and WAR right now. I will continue complaining about the state of DRK and WAR until they are both equal to Paladin, just like I complained about PLD in Heavensward times when they were lackluster.
However, that still does not make Paladin flawless, and there are still some nonsensical and clunky elements to it, swordoath especially. Since this is a Paladin specific feedback thread, it's appropriate to touch upon these issues. It is of great importance to look at things from multiple perspectives.

[SyzzleSpark]

Read again.
DRK's do not lose a GCD when switching FROM Tankstance TO Non-tankstance/DPS Stance as I laid it out in my original post.

You lose half of one.

Turning Grit off is still on the GCD, it just doesn't trigger the GCD. This is probably one of the most poorly proliferated pieces of information regarding Grit in the entire meta.

[Reynhart]

DRK's do not lose a GCD when switching FROM Tankstance TO Non-tankstance/DPS Stance as I laid it out in my original post.

It's because, technically, Darkside is not a "stance". For SwO to be oGCD, you would be able to activate both ShO and SwO.
What they should do is simply buff PLD AA, remove SwO and bring back ShO to -20% damage to compensate (And maybe increase the cost of activating ShO).
SwO is the most bland stance since it's the only one to not change how you play your class at all. Even ShO synergize with Holy Spirit.

[Thoro39]

It's because, technically, Darkside is not a "stance". For SwO to be oGCD, you would be able to activate both ShO and SwO.
What they should do is simply buff PLD AA, remove SwO and bring back ShO to -20% damage to compensate (And maybe increase the cost of activating ShO).
SwO is the most bland stance since it's the only one to not change how you play your class at all. Even ShO synergize with Holy Spirit.

Your first two sentences do not make any sense. One does not have anything to do with the other, and making SwordOath OffGCD would not cause you being able to activate both SHo and SwO at the same time unless specifically requested and implemented (which I did not).
On another note, this talk about "stance" is unnecessarily focused on semantics and does not contribute anything meaningful.
For all intents and purposes, Grit+ Darkside is the tankstance and nogrit+darkside is the dps stance in terms of gameplay, migitation and dps-output and you do not lose a GCD going from this specified "Tankstance" to "DPS stance" as a DRK, and that's all whats important for the topic I suggested. This talk about "But darkside is not a stance"? Not relevant or in any way meaningful at all.

Your supposed change would exactly do what I suggested, with 1 less button to care about, so that's fine by me, however.

You lose half of one.

Turning Grit off is still on the GCD, it just doesn't trigger the GCD. This is probably one of the most poorly proliferated pieces of information regarding Grit in the entire meta.

Half one is a grand exaggeration. Super grand exaggeration.
You can prequeue in your "Turnoff-Grit" action before the GCD becomes ready, just like you can prequeue/buffer any other OGCD after a GCD and the OGCD gets used as soon as the innate animationlock of using a GCD expires.
Activate Grit, execute one normal Hardslash GCD, press grit again when the GCD clock is finished at around 80%. You will see that Grit turns off as soon as your GCD becomes fully 100% ready without a second buttonpress and barely, if any delay.

I even made a webm-videodemonstration to show it:
https://webmshare.com/MJwYZ
You'd be joking if THAT is supposed to be a half-GCD loss, let alone a quarter one.

[Reynhart]

Your first two sentences do not make any sense. One does not have anything to do with the other, and making SwordOath OffGCD would not cause you being able to activate both SHo and SwO at the same time unless specifically requested and implemented (which I did not).

I don't recall any other situation where two different types of abilities cancel each other. I'm not even sure the system would manage this properly. Feel free to correct me if I've overlooked current skills that work that way.

On another note, this talk about "stance" is unnecessarily focused on semantics and does not contribute anything meaningful.

Problem is, system-wise, this is the reason why DRK don't lose a GCD (or mana) to be in "DPS stance", because it's not a DPS stance, but only the lack of Grit, and, as a universal rule right now, deactivating a skill is free and doesn't start any timer.

[Thoro39]

I don't recall any other situation where two different types of abilities cancel each other. I'm not even sure the system would manage this properly. Feel free to correct me if I've overlooked current skills that work that way.

You have one. It's called warrior, both their stances are offgcd. If you start in Defiance, do a GCD and activate deliverance, Deliverance eliminates the Defiance Debuff. Similarily, you could make swordoath OGCD and make its activation eliminate any Shieldoath buffs. So the system to implement that is already there.

I don't recall any other situation where two different types of abilities cancel each other. I'm not even sure the system would manage this properly. Feel free to correct me if I've overlooked current skills that work that way.

Problem is, system-wise, this is the reason why DRK don't lose a GCD (or mana) to be in "DPS stance", because it's not a DPS stance, but only the lack of Grit, and, as a universal rule right now, deactivating a skill is free and doesn't start any timer.

Which was exactly my point? The point that PLD's current iteration of swordoath is unnecessarily clunky and thus should be changed into something more fluid like DRK's method of turning of tankstance. Which is exactly why I'm pretty fine with the suggestion you posted as well. Systemwise, DRK has a more fluid way in switching from Tankstance to Non-tankstance/Dps-stance, and systemwise, Paladin should be changed to have a similarily fluidway of that particular switch.


Eitherway, you should probably stop initiating talks about Systemlimitations here.
Neither me, nor probably you are Developers of the FFXIV DevTeam, and thus, starting a conversation about systemlimitations is just initiating an uneducated debate between a man with no facts against a man with no facts, entirely meaningless and a waste of textspace. UNLESS you have a specific official Dev-comment that you can derive your concerns from.
The only thing endusers like us can do is talking about how gameplay feels and what we do not like about it. It is the devteam's job to make the system work around gameplay and gameplay adjustments and we should not limit our complaints to what's feasible to the current system exactly because we do NOT know the current systemlimitations ourselves.
If they say it's currently not possible due to systemlimitations, fine, but until no official word has been said, any complaint is fair to be voiced out and should not be dismissed by "It MIGHT not work in the current system, I'm not a developer though, so I have no clue", because that could be said to literally everything and any suggestions, and provides no meaningful argument nor contribution to the actual topic.

[Reynhart]

You have one. It's called warrior, both their stances are offgcd. If you start in Defiance, do a GCD and activate deliverance, Deliverance eliminates the Defiance Debuff. Similarily, you could make swordoath OGCD and make its activation eliminate any Shieldoath buffs. So the system to implement that is already there.

But Defiance and Deliverance are both "abilities". In your suggestion ShO will stay as a "spell" while SwO will become an "ability".

To be fair, we have a situation where a "spell" cancels an "ability" with Grit and Blood Weapon, so I guess the reverse should exist. Which still doesn't change the fact the SwO is bland