PLD Consolidated Feedback Thread

[Brannigan]

Paladin-related things I'd like to see be addressed
1) Shield Oath and Sword Oath should be on the same button. So should Defiance/Deliverance. There's almost no reason for a paladin or warrior to go stanceless. Technically paladin would lose the ability to instantly cancel its shield oath penalty (say, during a FoF window when the boss is about to become inaccessible to get one last FoF boosted RA), but that's something I can give up.
2) Macros need to queue properly so that Cover and Intervention can be used with mouseover more easily. TBN is also affected. Other classes have issues with stuff like this too (Apocatastasis, the physical one from brd/mch)
3) Holy Spirit should get a unique casting animation

[Mirateski]

I dislike that the fairly low block proc rate means you want to switch to SwO asap in order to have access to more sheltrons. As mt, and as the amazing cooldown that sheltron is, you'd think they'd want it to be MORE accessible in tank stance, not less.

I mean, admittedly I try to spend as little time in ShO as possible, but the discrepancy still niggles at me. I use sheltron way MORE often in SwO than I used to, and way LESS than I did in shield.

It's also a bit weird that sheltron offers a guarenteed return on the gauge you spend to activate it?

[Sipherous]

As of now most of pld quirks are fine. GCD stance dancing doesnt bother me i just weave ogcds in between and use them as cooldowns anyways. My adjustsments would be as follows.

Spirit Within- Needs to have a new passive to replace lack of silence. Maybe tie it to the oath gauge and move the cooldown to 15sec. 50 Oath gauge seems about right for it.

Devine Veil- Tie it to the Oath gauge. 50 Oath gauge to activate it. no CD. This effectively makes it a very handy CD. Also while up on the PLD gives a passive Regen.

Sheltron/Intervention- Reduce oath gauge cost to 25. This would allow more oath play for the skill and works well if devine veil and spirits are added in tot eh gauges costs.

Passage of Arms- Extend the buff for party members behind the PLD, as of now its only 5yalms. Most people dont realize it bu the wings tips extend to 15 yalms, half the time they arent even getting arms up passive and its annoying. Also shorten the animation time, you lose a full 2 sec of it with activation alone.

Shield Oath- Passive increase to block rate by 25%. It is shield oath after all. Also when shield swipe is used under shield oath you should gain 20 oath gauge.

Sword Oath- each auto should generate oath gauge, This would effectively give 10 Oath per auto. As of now Sword oath is really a permant dot for the PLD. I wouldnt mind a 5% dmg increase to all sword skills or something to make it more pleasing to the eye.

Sword/Shield Oath Release- This is a doozy. My Idea is to have both up and active at the same time negating the dmg penalty to Shield. The down side is it will drain oath gauge (about 10pnts every 3 sec) and you cannot generate oath gauge while both are active. This would be the crazy complicated play that pld would need to make them interesting.

PLD's are way to damn good this tier. Along with Whm they pretty much stepped on SCH/WAR/ASTROS from 3.0. They dominate the fights they are in with utility and dps but are simple to play. Ive mained pld since 2.0 and this is how I loved to play the class. heres hoping the dev team may consider my ideas.

[Xenosan]

Spirit Within- Needs to have a new passive to replace lack of silence. Maybe tie it to the oath gauge and move the cooldown to 15sec. 50 Oath gauge seems about right for it.

My first impulse was to see some DPS correlation to Oath gauge, too. But I realize now that is a mistake.

Any DPS component to Oath gauge compromises sustain/defense in Sheltron and utility in Intervention.

Do not want any DPS correlation for Oath gauge, it amounts to a nerf to one aspect or another.

I agree though Spirits feels naked without the Silence, but maybe that's from 4 years of just having that debuff to suddenly having nothing (why would PLD lose Silence over Ninja).

I'd take even a small MP restore on Spirits. The HP% scalar was always stupid. A failed OT/MT gimmick I'm guessing.

[RLofOBFL]

Legit complaints:

Tempered Will: Too long. Too unnecessary. Needs rework or heavy CD reduction. 60? 30?

Bulwark: Too long. Passive 80+% block rate is really nice but not deserving of sentinels CD, I'd lower it to 120 or 90.

Passage of Arms, this one doesn't really end up being very useful most of the time.The range is funky, you want the tank to face the boss towards the party? The stopping of attacks makes it instantly undesirable in savage due to strict dps checks so when is it supposed to be used? Every attack is already survivable in everything except maybe o4s. And it has this weird delay like Collective Unconsious where it takes like a server tic for the defense to take effect on the party.

Divine Veil : Really good but the CD is pretty long. I'd wonder if it could be reduced a tad to 90. Or to take it a step further, make it cost 100 oath gauge and only be available in Shield Oath so there is weight in swapping stances unique to PLD.

ShO/SwO: This is more of a personal complaint but maybe they could take one off the GCD, preferably SwO like DRK's darkside. And maybe make more risk and reward, such as Shield has a passive 10~20% block rate while Sword has a reduced block rate by 10~20%.

[Dortharl]

Legit complaints:

Tempered Will: Too long. Too unnecessary. Needs rework or heavy CD reduction. 60? 30?
Bulwark: Too long. Passive 80+% block rate is really nice but not deserving of sentinels CD, I'd lower it to 120 or 90.

Passage of Arms, this one doesn't really end up being very useful most of the time.The range is funky, you want the tank to face the boss towards the party? The stopping of attacks makes it instantly undesirable in savage due to strict dps checks so when is it supposed to be used? Every attack is already survivable in everything except maybe o4s. And it has this weird delay like Collective Unconsious where it takes like a server tic for the defense to take effect on the party.

Divine Veil : Really good but the CD is pretty long. I'd wonder if it could be reduced a tad to 90. Or to take it a step further, make it cost 100 oath gauge and only be available in Shield Oath so there is weight in swapping stances unique to PLD.

ShO/SwO: This is more of a personal complaint but maybe they could take one off the GCD, preferably SwO like DRK's darkside. And maybe make more risk and reward, such as Shield has a passive 10~20% block rate while Sword has a reduced block rate by 10~20%.

Excellent post you've summarized the issues well, our CDs are the longest of all tanks which would make sense if the abilities were strong enough to warrant this but Tempered Will and Bulwark aren't really worth there current cool down and Passage of arms looks really cool but half the time I use it the party doesn't get the benefit because it takes so long for the buff to affect them.

Divine Veil is the only utility I've found really useful.

[Brannigan]

Divine Veil is the only utility I've found really useful.

Clemency is good (though on a boss fight you'd better make it count since it's a huge DPS loss) and PoA is kind of just a meme but Cover is great now that it works on magic. It's the premiere clutch skill of the game.

I'd take even a small MP restore on Spirits. The HP% scalar was always stupid. A failed OT/MT gimmick I'm guessing.

It's kind of a holdover from FFXI where it was based on HP. That made it to 1.x, where it was still based on HP and Spirits Within hit a lot harder and was a much more integral part of tanking because it had a huge enmity modifier and basically pierced defense. Defense isn't a thing now though and Spirits has no hate mod so it does feel a little bland. Not that paladin needs it now, but I've always wanted it to have different effects depending on whether you were in shield or sword oath.

[Xenosan]

[Spirit's Within HP scalar] It's kind of a holdover from FFXI where it was based on HP. That made it to 1.x, where it was still based on HP and Spirits Within hit a lot harder..

Oh I had forgotten about that. And even IIRC too, even in 1.x it seemed like just a half-hearted carry-over from XI's VIT-based Spirit's Within weaponskill, which made PLD AF1+Joyeuse an interesting build. In that case HP scalar should be an increase to damage, like Upheaval is (apparently?) for WAR.

The only sensible proposals I can see here are the CD reduction for Tempered Will (60-90s would be fine)

Hell with Plunge at 30s and Onslaught at 15s I think 60s recast isn't asking for much either. How about 30 ;3 I guess there could be too many trial knockback/falloff mechanics that could be cheesed though (assuming TW even works in those instances)..

[Jhett_Magnum]

Bulwark and Shield swipe are only useable in ShO.
Or just have the tank stance passively have 60% block rate, and delete Bulwark.

[Fernosaur]

The only sensible proposals I can see here are the CD reduction for Tempered Will (60-90s would be fine) and Bulwark (2m to make it always pair up with Awareness).

I agree that PLD's gauge is boring but tying it into other job elements would bring more problems than it would fix, and gating utility behind tank or DPS stances will only make things uncomfortable for a toolkit that is already pretty stiff in its rotation.