Request for Super Easy difficulty

[JunseiKei]

Sure that makes business sense for SE, less money. Since casuals outnumber elite/hardcore 100 to 1.

I could say the opposite. If someone cannot perform the highest denominator expected from this particular game, perhaps it is time that they seek another title.

Absolutes, funny that people cannot ever see the truth only their own version of truth.

Bring me the data sheets! I wonder where I am? I'm a casual that certainly follows the mentality of "elite." I am an elitist (not the bastardization it has come to mean 'believes they are superior while others are inferior'; I mean 'this is the game, perform what the game wants, get better at it, get better at it still, continue to get better at it because you will never be perfect').

Also, Omega normal is a far cry from the highest denominator expected out of this game. What I am not saying is it's easy for everyone; I'm sure my mother with arthritis would have a hard time playing the MMO, but I'd not demand they dumb the game down for her; I'd actually point her to a game she'd be able to handle. However, that's someone with a physical handicap and disability, which is far harder to overcome than something that usually equates to laziness. Most players are capable, just unwilling to improve. What I am saying is people should look to improve, not try, fail (or are now 'inconvenienced') and ask for something easier. As long as you continuously give in to make things easier, there will never be a need to improve. The goal is to make skill gaps shrink, not cause reasons for them to gape.

This already happens. Its why the whole no bonus culture exists.

The easy (normal) modes of fights don\t actually teach anything to players. So when those players then do the harder (extreme /savage) modes they don't have a clue what the hell to do or what is going on.

And this is why the player base has created the massive no bonus culture to try and filter out those people as much as possible because they often don't even know where to begin in a harder fight.

It's also why the raid finder was added because the duty finder would mix all those players together which ultimately meant players weren't using it. Raid finder though let players filter out the easy moders and was a.hugely successful in doing so.

So that mix already exists and is why there is a huge no bonus culture around. And why players get so much grief when they tried to ignore it and sneak into groups

That's a misconception. In normal modes, you do see extremely simplified mechanics of the savage or extreme versions. IE: Sophia normal teaches you to go to the side with less weight so you don't slide off. Extreme takes the same mechanic, adding in slightly more difficulty with the two different weights. Ramuh's fight is essentially the same exact fight, just with water, making the area smaller with a forced tank swap because of the orbs. O1S and O2S are barely different than the normal modes. Even A11 with the prey mechanic is no different than A11S's whole party is now at 1 HP, floor lines so you can't stay in place and the boss is now casting an AoE, better heal up. The difference is that it's one person with that mechanic in normal with the same variables, and in savage it's now on the whole party.

The 'no bonus' thing is for players that simply don't want to carry people that may not know anything about the fight and waste their time. This is generally people looking to farm the mounts, but not always limited to that. The raid finder had the same option as well; clicking duty complete means you could not get someone with a bonus; the difference between a PF with no bonus and RF with complete meant that RF was new people every time and PF was the same 8 people. Some people just like the appeal of consistency that PF group would bring.

The reason people give those that sneak into party grief is because they often don't ask. This, regardless of your culture, is generally regarded as disrespectful. Many parties that are asked will give the person a shot, but will only give them so many tries. If it's not the person in question messing up, they often will keep them and remove the player(s) causing the issue(s).

[Sandpark]

Bring me the data sheets! I wonder where I am? I'm a casual that certainly follows the mentality of "elite." I am an elitist (not the bastardization it has come to mean 'believes they are superior while others are inferior'; I mean 'this is the game, perform what the game wants, get better at it, get better at it still, continue to get better at it because you will never be perfect').

Also, Omega normal is a far cry from the highest denominator expected out of this game. What I am not saying is it's easy for everyone; I'm sure my mother with arthritis would have a hard time playing the MMO, but I'd not demand they dumb the game down for her; I'd actually point her to a game she'd be able to handle. However, that's someone with a physical handicap and disability, which is far harder to overcome than something that usually equates to laziness. Most players are capable, just unwilling to improve. What I am saying is people should look to improve, not try, fail (or are now 'inconvenienced') and ask for something easier. As long as you continuously give in to make things easier, there will never be a need to improve. The goal is to make skill gaps shrink, not cause reasons for them to gape.

I need no data sheet. Anyone who plays, create or follows mmos knows the fact of that. I do not know you personally so I cannot say for certain if you are the bad kind of elite. But telling someone to play another game if they can't handle it sounds that way.

I am saying that Extreme, savage, or super savage are the hardest contents in this game not Omega specifically. I'd recommend to someone with a disability I care for to play something easier myself. However as a company you want the widest type of players to play the game. It's why games like Dark Souls are popular but not to the degree of say Star Wars or offline FF, easier caters to the broadest spectrum of players. All people improve, but sometimes there is a ceiling they cannot overcome.

Easing content and having big quality of life things lessens the skill gap, where as making super difficult things widens that gap. That was the whole purpose of SE trying to revamp the battle classes.

You can be the best of the best on the server and have BiS. And you would deserve that and I recognize you as being good if that is the case too. The world has doctors and actors, the world has supermarket cashiers and factory workers. The game has casuals for story and strive to perfection raiders.

All people are getting a fix here and all people are great at something. So let's not belittle, run off, or make fun of people just because they are not as good at a particular thing as you or me or ask for their own type of content.

[Dzian]

That's a misconception. In normal modes, you do see extremely simplified mechanics of the savage or extreme versions. IE: Sophia normal teaches you to go to the side with less weight so you don't slide off. Extreme takes the same mechanic, adding in slightly more difficulty with the two different weights. Ramuh's fight is essentially the same exact fight, just with water, making the area smaller with a forced tank swap because of the orbs..

Not Really. Sophia normal doesn't teach you anything you need to know for extreme. even the tilt mechanic. in normal mode players just stand in the middle of the arean and completely ignore the tilts. you only slide across maybe 45% of the arena so if you're in the middle 10% you will never fall off. thus the tilts can be completely ignored.

zurvans another one. the soar in normal mode was nothing like the soar in extreme mode. and that's why so many players had problems with it and couldn't do that simple mechanic even though they'd cleared normal they had no clue at all how to deal with extreme..

The 'no bonus' thing is for players that simply don't want to carry people that may not know anything about the fight and waste their time.

which is basically everyone. the no bonus is to filter out players that haven't cleared content because the failure rate with those players in a party is incredibly high. that's why no one touched extreme primals in the duty finder because it was almost guaranteed to be a waste of time because of players with bonus...

the fact that everything already has an easy mode is why the player base is so fragmented and the no bonus culture exists.... if a normal mode fight was actually remotely difficult and similar to its extreme / savage mode counter part. then players would be a lot more willing to accept those bonus players into partys for those hard modes because the fact they cleared the normal modes would show they at least grasp the basics of the fight and have a minimum proficiency..

as it stands though the normal modes for most things are almost impossible to fail and teach players absolutely nothing.. even omega normal. the first one of those we 1 shot and didn't learn any of the mechanics at all. done that fight a dozen times and I still don't know some of the mechanics. but the reality is they can just be ignored anyway so not worth paying any attention to or trying to figure them out...

my earlier post was in response to someone saying a super easy mode would create a divide in the playerbase. and then cause problems when those players are mixed together. I simply said that already happens.. and it does.

when they added raid finder players complained that they couldn't get parties for extreme primals because everyone was using the duty complete option to filter out bonuses and thus excluding them and separating the player base... basically they wanted experienced players to carry them. and experienced players didn't want to waste there time with that stuff. which is why they added the raid finder in the first place.

the games difficulty already creates a massive split in the playerbase

[Vocal_Night]

the fact that everything already has an easy mode is why the player base is so fragmented and the no bonus culture exists.... if a normal mode fight was actually remotely difficult and similar to its extreme / savage mode counter part. then players would be a lot more willing to accept those bonus players into partys for those hard modes because the fact they cleared the normal modes would show they at least grasp the basics of the fight and have a minimum proficiency..

as it stands though the normal modes for most things are almost impossible to fail and teach players absolutely nothing.. even omega normal.

But if they did that, people would complain that it is too hard and they can't progress the story because they are stuck in a trial.
See: Shinryu

[JunseiKei]

I need no data sheet. Anyone who plays, create or follows mmos knows the fact of that. I do not know you personally so I cannot say for certain if you are the bad kind of elite. But telling someone to play another game if they can't handle it sounds that way.

I am saying that Extreme, savage, or super savage are the hardest contents in this game not Omega specifically. I'd recommend to someone with a disability I care for to play something easier myself. However as a company you want the widest type of players to play the game. It's why games like Dark Souls are popular but not to the degree of say Star Wars or offline FF, easier caters to the broadest spectrum of players. All people improve, but sometimes there is a ceiling they cannot overcome.

Easing content and having big quality of life things lessens the skill gap, where as making super difficult things widens that gap. That was the whole purpose of SE trying to revamp the battle classes.

You can be the best of the best on the server and have BiS. And you would deserve that and I recognize you as being good if that is the case too. The world has doctors and actors, the world has supermarket cashiers and factory workers. The game has casuals for story and strive to perfection raiders.

All people are getting a fix here and all people are great at something. So let's not belittle, run off, or make fun of people just because they are not as good at a particular thing as you or me or ask for their own type of content.

Actually it was more of a ploy that you'd not be able to bring up any data at all, only a perception that you'd more likely to run into casuals than elite or hardcore players (especially if you take those people to assume they do not like running with/into bad players and simply play with their friends and maintain a perceived scarcity). I was also pointing out that people that are actually incapable of playing the game will infinitely find themselves struggling in the game to do anything. Like my friend, who is deaf, was actively excluded from raid groups because of his disability. "You can't hear call outs" was the reasoning. Our group took him in and he's been one of the best players our community has had (no longer raids with us and managed to find a raid group willing to work with him and better fit his schedule). The rest are lazy; perfectly capable, but wanting easier passes. I also said the "bad" elite is the misused term that was widely spread, a thing that happens quite often, but sure, if you want to say I think people are inferior to me, go ahead. You'd be completely wrong, though, but I won't try and change your mind. You sound decided on it.

I can't really comment on Dark Souls other than it has a lot of cheap tricks to use that a lot of people tend to fall for. The first and last time I watched someone play it, I told them things like, "there's a cliff-face with a corner; you're gonna get ambushed and pushed off" or "dark building, can't see in it at all, narrow path leading to it; that's a trap" and watched him run into these things and die. They really play on people's lack of awareness for the most part. The boss battles look great, mostly (aside from a couple of less than favorable circumstances), but that's just my opinion. Or my age is showing because these things have been seen in various games before.

Extreme, savage and super savage (not yet in game) are stepping stones in difficulty. Open world mobs, story dungeons, trials, trial-primal/ hard-primal, normal raid, 24 man raid, extreme primal, savage raid. That's the difficulty I'd rank them for various reasons, but mostly boiling down to how well you can sustain DPS/healing/tanking while performing mechanics and keeping awareness of your surroundings. I'd actually rank the last 24 man, Dun Scaith, above any of the extreme primals in terms of difficulty because of the awareness needed for the final fight especially, but because you have 24 people, you've given quite a lot of room for messing up, making the difficulty almost pointless. Anyway, what I'm saying is there is already compensation to progress based on what you can accomplish. If you cannot do Omega normal, you have the weekly cap that you can grind out from hunts and trials. It's not like you're completely impeded from progression, like you would be in other MMOs. Well, I guess in most MMOs, you can simply throw the currency at the market board since most armor is buyable.

With the gap in battle classes having been closed, though, it should mean more people can clear these things as a difficulty hurdle was drastically reduced.

I think you misunderstand. I don't belittle people for any short comings they might have. I usually work with them, but I can also see futility and frustration as highly destructive things and I won't expect someone to suffer. That doesn't mean I want to see any difficulty or reason to advance completely deminished or removed from a team- style game like this. It's for that reason there shouldn't be extra modes for dungeons. Last I checked, the only reason normal raids were even placed in was because people were upset they got locked out from the story that happened in Coil. You know, the conclusion to the cinematic played at the title screen.

Not Really. Sophia normal doesn't teach you anything you need to know for extreme. even the tilt mechanic. in normal mode players just stand in the middle of the arean and completely ignore the tilts. you only slide across maybe 45% of the arena so if you're in the middle 10% you will never fall off. thus the tilts can be completely ignored.

zurvans another one. the soar in normal mode was nothing like the soar in extreme mode. and that's why so many players had problems with it and couldn't do that simple mechanic even though they'd cleared normal they had no clue at all how to deal with extreme..


which is basically everyone. the no bonus is to filter out players that haven't cleared content because the failure rate with those players in a party is incredibly high. that's why no one touched extreme primals in the duty finder because it was almost guaranteed to be a waste of time because of players with bonus...

the fact that everything already has an easy mode is why the player base is so fragmented and the no bonus culture exists.... if a normal mode fight was actually remotely difficult and similar to its extreme / savage mode counter part. then players would be a lot more willing to accept those bonus players into partys for those hard modes because the fact they cleared the normal modes would show they at least grasp the basics of the fight and have a minimum proficiency..

as it stands though the normal modes for most things are almost impossible to fail and teach players absolutely nothing.. even omega normal. the first one of those we 1 shot and didn't learn any of the mechanics at all. done that fight a dozen times and I still don't know some of the mechanics. but the reality is they can just be ignored anyway so not worth paying any attention to or trying to figure them out...

my earlier post was in response to someone saying a super easy mode would create a divide in the playerbase. and then cause problems when those players are mixed together. I simply said that already happens.. and it does.

when they added raid finder players complained that they couldn't get parties for extreme primals because everyone was using the duty complete option to filter out bonuses and thus excluding them and separating the player base... basically they wanted experienced players to carry them. and experienced players didn't want to waste there time with that stuff. which is why they added the raid finder in the first place.

the games difficulty already creates a massive split in the playerbase

Nothing, you say? So, Sophia normal doesn't teach you that you will slide toward the heaviest side? That you go to the side of less tethers/ odd number of tethers is a soft tilt? Of course, yes, in normal mode, you only get soft tilts and can simply sit at the middle of the stage, even if you get hit by invulnerability stacks from Sophia or her head. The adds in normal don't teach you that one confuses, one puts down ice and the other parries (and I think that might still knockback)? That you take more damage being close to the weights players drop? That her giant circle AoE has a safe spot in her hitbox, even though there's no indicator in EX, as goes with thunder II being a front cleave? That's the point of these story dungeons- to make them as brain- numbingly easy as they can do people are not gated. Unfortunately, there's no reason to try when you will almost always succeed. However, my point still stands. The normal version does teach the basics of the fight for those that care to pay attention. Extreme takes the same mechanics and gives them a slight twist while adding new ones and making everything more punishing overall.

I honestly don't remember soar in zurvan normal. I think I've only ever done zurvan normal once. I wouldn't say it was how different that threw people off, it's always been how to judge the two "hard" areas that are safe (usually NW and SE) and people getting thrown off that you judge it by relation to the tank, not the map. I was never part of the skip soar or disband/kick crowd, but people struggling with the mechanic, I found, quickly mastered it when you explained it to them like that (and if they still struggled, I told 'em to follow me and notice the placement- :P played healer so I could stack on their placement).

Which brings us to the next topic: no bonus. Many people in these "farm" parties often struggled with this mechanic. Many were never taught it; they were either carried with high enough DPS parties to not hit it, or those parties hit it and could not explain it and would disband. You can't teach what you, yourself, don't comprehend, but if you say anything, you'd look foolish, if not a hypocrite. So people just disband and avoid the situation altogether. I've seen a couple try and buff through an explanation; it was funny to me, but when you try to softly correct them I found the situation just gets worse, no matter how polite you try to be. For some reason, pride over group cooperation and success means more on the NA servers (I can't speak for EU nor will I try).

However, people will always have the ability to say what they have time for. If they have no time to teach people a new fight, it's well within their right to exclude others. Even without the no bonus message, this would be the case, as it was well before then in other games.

It's a bit disheartening to hear you can clear the fights without understanding the mechanics, but at least it might mean you have a grasp on them even if you don't realize it. Hopefully. Maybe? *Sweatdrops.* The savage versions of 1 and 2 in Omega are so similar it's almost boring, but still stands by what I said. These were things for story and not to be gated upon. While it's more difficult than most dungeons run for the main story or leveling, it was never intended to be hard enough to completely gate people. The fact that people are asking for an even easier version is mind boggling to me. If people that do not even know the mechanics can clear it, then why are people asking for an even easier version?

I also can't help but wonder why can't people create a new party finder to learn fights, or ask friends to teach them, if experienced strangers don't wish to invest their time in someone else. I'd would dare say that while there is a difficulty in the game in between jumps, it's ultimately the players causing the split between players; those that don't wish to invest their time in someone unwilling to learn and those that do not wish to invest their time in learning what is already being asked.

[Sandpark]

No, it is not a perception. It is a fact, that a certain demographic of games outnumber the other. I forgot what census I read on this game, but most people according to that didn't even reach the level cap, how the heck would they be knee deep in raids, if even the MSQ is too long winded or difficult? The raiding articles are educated opinion though. I do not like linking articles, because everyone can look up stuff themselves. But I don't like being accused of using some ploy or sideways tactics to make a point.

The game needs more midcore and casual content than what is currently offered. If clears or participation are anywhere south of 70% of the playerbase, then that content has failed to deliver what it should. No the rest of the game is not what I mean, you get new raid content, I want a new kind of content in patches too.

Hey, it's great there is special content for raiders, who want super difficult challenge so they can be at the top of the food chain. I want a more flexible system for smaller groups and solo/duo. Challenging but not so much that animosity is spread among individuals or ridiculing because it is simpler than x super savage extreme chaotic version.

http://essentialfacts.theesa.com/Ess...Facts-2016.pdf

https://www.engadget.com/2014/11/24/...aiding-part-1/

https://www.engadget.com/2014/11/25/...aiding-part-2/

https://www.engadget.com/2014/11/26/...aiding-part-3/

[uvuvwevwevweonyetenyevweugwemu]

-snip-

Thank you, it's a good article.

SE already got it right when they put unlocking Savage/Extreme behind minstrel and that Allagan test probe. Savage/Extreme are basically daydream/song versions
of the actual story fight. How can BiS drop in something that supposed to be reminiscing runs? That would be the hardcore raiders fault (and partly SE for giving in to their whine).
By wanting a harder content, they actually made the mistake of making it easy. They should put glamors/mount/title on it, there should not be any gear drops at all.

Savage/Extreme only need a very tiny change, no minimum ilevel. Unlocking should be way past msq and at max ilevel.
Let the hardcore raiders have rare title 'I beat this dungeon 100 ilevels below'. Up to them if they want to run in hundreds of times.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Thank you, it's a good article.

SE already got it right when they put unlocking Savage/Extreme behind minstrel and that Allagan test probe. Savage/Extreme are basically daydream/song versions
of the actual story fight. How can BiS drop in something that supposed to be reminiscing runs? That would be the hardcore raiders fault (and partly SE for giving in to their whine).
By wanting a harder content, they actually made the mistake of making it easy. They should put glamors/mount/title on it, there should not be any gear drops at all.

Savage/Extreme only need a very tiny change, no minimum ilevel. Unlocking should be way past msq and at max ilevel.
Let the hardcore raiders have rare title 'I beat this dungeon 100 ilevels below'. Up to them if they want to run in hundreds of times.

Actually, it isn't. That study has been passed along on other forums and it's misleading as games are not split by genre. This puts Call of Duty and Final Fantasy in the same category as Candy Crush. When people bring up game statistics, they typically refer to the AAA industry.

Putting that all aside, BiS is a meaningless term for anyone who isn't a Savage raider. There is not a single piece of content outside Savage that requires anything above 290, let alone 340. So it's irrelevant what drops from the harder modes unless you actively participate in them. Furthermore, people ignore the trickle down effect and what impact it has on the overall game. Say they eliminated Savage because only 20-30% of players even bother with it, let alone clear. You're guaranteed to lose all the hardcore playerbase and a sizable portion of the midcore, who now having nothing to strive towards. Likewise, the crafting community crumbles since who is going to buy gear, food and pots when everything is faceroll easy? This loss of players affects queues as not only has the puddle eroded from the veteran side, you have less people caring about it since progression really isn't a thing anymore.

No one piece of content caters to a majority audience. If you looked at crafting, you'd likely see only 10-15% of the playerbase actively crafts yet you'll never see a thread claiming it should be removed. Same with individual jobs. Should we only keep the most popular ones? This is the issue when you attempt to compare a single piece of content against everything. MMOs are comprised of small pieces for a broad audience. What you dislike another loves.

[Eldevern]

http://essentialfacts.theesa.com/Ess...Facts-2016.pdf

https://www.engadget.com/2014/11/24/...aiding-part-1/

https://www.engadget.com/2014/11/25/...aiding-part-2/

https://www.engadget.com/2014/11/26/...aiding-part-3/

TheSims #1,3,4,11,12,15,16,17,19 in the top 20. XD
When we say they should revamp the housing, now people know why :-D