Is Hydaelyn an alternate universe of Ivalice? (Patch 3.4 spoilers)

[The_Last_Dragoon]

Back during the Warrior of Darkness storyline, there was mention that there were 13 reflections of Hydaelyn and Zodiark after the Great Sundering as well as just as many worlds to house them. It's also revealed to us that seven worlds have fallen out of balance, not including the First from which the Warriors of Darkness came. Barring events that can be considered non-canon such as the Lightning event and the FFXI crossovers, there are still some pretty solid connections to the other Final Fantasy worlds. One of those worlds specifically is called the Void, which was enshrouded by darkness and has some striking similarities to Final Fantasy 3. Not only does the Cloud of Darkness exist within the Void as a driving force, but she commands the voidsent with which she has been able to terrorize all of the worlds. But how does this connect us directly to Ivalice?

The idea originally stemmed from the realization that Zodiark has only ever existed in games belonging to the Ivalice Alliance prior to Final Fantasy XIV. It also seems to have correlations with the Zodiark in FFXII since the esper in the game is described as having near absolute power, but there is no mention as to how they know this. It's my theory that the Zodiark in Ivalice is in fact a fragment of Zodiark and part of the 13 reflections. This would mean that there's a high chance that Garlemald is a reflection of Archadia and given that the current map can potentially hold the entire known map of Ivalice. It's also very possible that versions of the Bangaa, Viera, Seeq, and Nu Mou exist within the FFXIV universe. Of course only time will tell if this is the direction they choose to take, though it is fun to speculate.

This isn't exactly news to most players though, since even in ARR there were a ton of similarities in both enemy and environment design but everything was circumstantial. It wasn't until Stormblood was released that we received the world map of Eorzea, so use this thread to speculate for yourselves whether or not we'll see something akin to Ivalice when we finally make it to Garlemald.

Known map of Eorzea

FFXII map of Ivalice

[Anonymoose]

Short Answer: No.

Long Answer:

Naoki Yoshida feels that Final Fantasy XIV has a unique freedom and responsibility as a Final Fantasy Online title. On one hand, it has to continue on the tradition of each numbered title having its own cosmos and mythology. On the other, not only is this one of the only Final Fantasy mediums left whereby "player creates hero" is still a thing, but people will be playing it together. He seizes upon this by taking the nostalgia higher than moogles and chocobos, allowing it to be a celebration of every Final Fantasy, especially the early [Mysterious Warriors of Light] titles. In his own (paraphrased) words: "Final Fantasy XIV is meant to be an amusement park where every Final Fantasy inspires its own attractions."

Even when things bear the same names, even when they bear the same look, even when they have similarly blank histories, they are NOT the same thing. Final Fantasy XIV is isolated, and even familiar things are forks unique to Hydaelyn with their own histories and identities molded to fit this world. Some things simply undergo less modification than others, because just as there's a time to own your invocations and take them somewhere new and exciting, there's also a time and place for old friends to transcend their spritely forms and manifest in the glory of 3D with minimal liberties taken.

To be absolutely clear, there is no direct connection between FFXIV’s Hydaelyn and FFXII’s Ivalice or even FFXI’s Vana’diel. They are not the same world in different dimensions or time—they are their own separate worlds. However, there are certain connections to people or objects that appear in these other worlds that figure into the story of FFXIV as it has been conceived and is being told.

On occasion, there will be a pseudo-canon fun-time event that stretches these rules pretty much to the breaking point, but notice that they always blame the other game and are never mentioned outside of their own bubble. Nothing in Final Fantasy XIV allowed Shantotto to appear, Shantotto did it; she's that powerful in the world of Final Fantasy XI. Nothing in Final Fantasy XIV allowed Lightning to appear, Bhunivelze did it; he's that powerful in the world of Final Fantasy XIII. And, then, of course, Yo-Kai Watch, lol. Like Hildibrand, they're as canon as each individual wants them to be.

Soon, Return to Ivalice will be added. This one is the big one, imho. When it comes to DLC and bonus dungeons and re-make homages (other types of pseudo-canon fun-time), all bets are off. However, occasionally, one director can truly "opt-in" to another world. It's an iffy thing; modifying another team's creation and inserting yourself into it is ethically dubious, imho (at best). And I say that while acknowledging that Square Enix repeatedly kicks the hornets nest by creating things like Dissidia and Mobius, using the multiverse to justify the grouped nostalgia, knowing full well that some people will apply it in reverse and ignore the authority of a game's director when claiming that their creation is isolated.

However, with Return to Ivalice, you have Naoki Yoshida and Yasumi Matsuno, the creator of Ivalice himself, working together. Pretty much anything goes, and without question, when you have that level of blessing. We asked Yoshida if this finally burst the isolation bubble, and he said:

(chuckles) I think it would be better if you actually played the content.

My stance, personally, has not changed. And so with that being said, if you play through the content of Return to Ivalice and see what the interpretation of it is, within that content, this is something that we discussed in-depth with the creator of Ivalice, Mr Matsuno, and this is content that won’t end with just one patch. So we’re hoping that players can dive into the content and see how we’ve interpreted Ivalice and sort of brought a new sort of interpretation together.

So something mysterious is up, but even this technically doesn't fully opt-in.

This was recently broached yet again in the big picture of the multiverse, when Omega appeared and created enemies from Final Fantasy V. Even though the game went pretty far out of its way to show that Omega was a creation "from a distant planet" that was host to "an advanced civilization" and that all of these creatures were from the fourteen prime dimensions (some based on fictional accounts, at that), it still needed to be stated outright that:

In Final Fantasy V, Omega’s lore was set in a way where you didn’t know where it came from; therefore, people thought it came from the void. As for the bosses, they aren’t the same bosses from that game, but we did some trial and error to make them fit into FFXIV.

Over the years, people have assumed Final Fantasy XIV is actually, canonically, concretely, somehow to Final Fantasies III, V, VI, XI, XII, XIII, Dissidia, and Mobius. But they've rejected every opportunity to opt-in to anything more than cross-over gimmicks for the sake of fun and profit, and so the bulwark holds for now.

Zodiark of Final Fantasy XIV bears the name of a god of Ivalice, but the Dark Father is merely wearing some of his themes.

[Cilia]

Nope, it's been repeatedly stated by SE that while there are myriad name references to Ivalice, Hydaelyn is its own separate world. Same deal with XI's Vana'diel.

[The_Last_Dragoon]

Nope, it's been repeatedly stated by SE that while there are myriad name references to Ivalice, Hydaelyn is its own separate world. Same deal with XI's Vana'diel.

Never said they were the same world, just saying that Ivalice may also be one of the reflections the great sundering since it's the only other final fantasy realm with Zodiark and they've already connected the Final Fantasy 3 universe as the first world to fall to darkness aka. The Void.

EDIT: Also, if you consider the seasonal events canon, then Final Fantasy XI has pretty much been confirmed as one of the reflections with two crossover events and Final Fantasy XIII could also have had their world connected through their event. This is because actual characters from those worlds come over and not a bunch of Eorzean representatives like they did with Dragon Quest and Yokai Watch.

[WhiteArchmage]

Pretty much what Moose said (before the inevitable edit)

Short answer: No.
Longer answer: While the dev team likes doing a lot of nods to previous FFs, they've made very clear that Hydaelin exists in a separate universe to the rest of the Final Fantasy games; while this has gotten blurred specifically in regards to Ivalice (what with the upcoming "Return to Ivalice" raid) we're still in full "these are nothing more than references" territory.

[Anonymoose]

Pretty much what Moose said (before the inevitable edit)

I misplaced one of my citations. (^^')7

[The_Last_Dragoon]

So something mysterious is up, but even this doesn't opt-in to the Multiverse.

This was recently broached yet again in the big picture of the multiverse, when Omega appeared and created enemies from Final Fantasy V. Even though the game went pretty far out of its way to show that Omega was a creation "from a distant planet" that was host to "an advanced civilization" and that all of these creatures were from the fourteen prime dimensions (some based on fictional accounts, at that)

It's also possible that these worlds simply aren't the same as the worlds that we know. For example, with "The Void," Cloud of Darkness, and Xande being FFXIV canon, it doesn't necessarily have to be the same storyline that existed in FFIII because both The Void from FFIII and The Void from FFXIV are seperate. Essentially this is to say that this allows them to insert things like entire places or characters without it affecting the canon of the original story.

[TinyRedLeaf]

I have to say that I hate it when people claim things are "pretty much confirmed", when the truth is nothing is actually yet confirmed.

In other words, don't confuse opinion with fact, fan-fiction with actual story events.

As for the shard worlds, we don't know enough about them to confirm anything, beyond what we have learnt about the first and last reflections. One is in danger of falling into a flood of light, while the other became the Void.

Anyway, such topics pop up so regularly, I wonder, again, if it's a good idea to have a sticky message somewhere stating the definitive, official answer: "No, Hydaelyn is its own standalone world, not part of some earlier world featured in other title in the franchise."

[The_Last_Dragoon]

I have to say that I hate it when people claim things are "pretty much confirmed", when the truth is nothing is actually yet confirmed.

I never said anything was confirmed, lol. Even the title is posing a question, so I'm not sure if you're just not reading far enough to where I say that this is all speculation and that we don't know what direction they will take with the story.

[LineageRazor]

Never said they were the same world, just saying that Ivalice may also be one of the reflections the great sundering since it's the only other final fantasy realm with Zodiark and they've already connected the Final Fantasy 3 universe as the first world to fall to darkness aka. The Void.

It is highly, highly unlikely that any of the Reflections are the worlds of other Final Fantasy games, for several reasons.

For one, the Reflections are all considered to be subordinate to the world we exist on; Haeydalyn is the Origin world from which the Reflections originate. This would likely not sit well at all with fans of Tactics and 12 and such, as I doubt they'd be happy with the implication that their favored world is just an imitation of 14's.

Additionally, having the Reflections be other Final Fantasy worlds greatly limits what SE can do with them. If we decide that, say, the Fifth Reflection is the world of Final Fantasy V, and then say that that world was reabsorbed into the Source, suddenly the adventures of Bartz, Lenna, and friends is all meaningless because everything they worked to preserve is now gone. No, if the Reflections were real Final Fantasy worlds, SE would be forced to never touch them, for fear of pissing off the fans of those games.

I think that it is safe to assume that the Source AND all of its Reflections are, collectively, the universe of Final Fantasy XIV. This leaves the developers total freedom in deciding the way that the story will proceed, without fear in treading on anyone's nostalgia. The Reflections can survive or die, perhaps the Ascians will even succeed in their plans for a Rejoining, which would mean the end of all the Reflected worlds (and possibly the Source, as well - unless we're able to do something to preserve it).