Can Summoners Get Some Of These Combat Changes?

[Viridiana_Sovari]

Sorry but there is no way those changes I suggested could close a 700+ dps gap, no even close. At the very best it would push it right behind RDM.

Seriously though, do you use RDM or SMN in Savage. I mean I know the answer but since you think SMN is in such good shape and all......

Are you kidding me, they do roughly the same dps as rdm on average right now.... You want add another DoT that does a bit less than the other 2 over the fight, buff Shadow Flare by 50%, make ruin III even more spammable though ruin I, II, III, and DWT changes while buffing it by 33%, buff ruin IV by 25%, take any mana loss from movement away again making Ruin III more spammable, buff pet damage by 40%, both lengthen DWT and make it more frequent through shortened Aetherflow, buff Bahamut's damage through procs, buff the his enkindle by making it cast once at slightly more potency than 2 do at the moment...

Oh and make Devotion better than most buffs in the game when we still have party buffs from Ifrit and Garuda, and Res ability, while giving us a raid wide crit buff too? Do some math please. You are 15% or less behind SAM dps depending on the fight. These changes obviously add up to more than that.

[Caduagm]

snip.

Well... Looks like you don't know nothing about smn.
If you ever ever know the rotation, you'd know that you are delaying your contagion over, over and over again. How kind of the "utiliy" is that? That's not even that good for compos with 2 casters.
And about sustain. Well if you ever did A8s (probably not) you'd know that you HAD to use it everyintermission, because Garuda's life were around 20%. I don't know you but rather use an ability to heal my pet by 400 mp instead of summoning him again wasting 3 gcds/ 2400 mana.
So if we have movement? You just said before we now pass the most of time spamming ruin 3.
The "movement" and the "utility" we have is not worth by RDMs doing 300 dps more than us and BLMs 500.

[Viridiana_Sovari]

Well... Looks like you don't know nothing about smn.
If you ever ever know the rotation, you'd know that you are delaying your contagion over, over and over again. How kind of the "utiliy" is that? That's not even that good for compos with 2 casters.
And about sustain. Well if you ever did A8s (probably not) you'd know that you HAD to use it everyintermission, because Garuda's life were around 20%. I don't know you but rather use an ability to heal my pet by 400 mp instead of summoning him again wasting 3 gcds/ 2400 mana.
So if we have movement? You just said before we now pass the most of time spamming ruin 3.
The "movement" and the "utility" we have is not worth by RDMs doing 300 dps more than us and BLMs 500.

First if you are delaying Contagion that much then learn to play. Don't just pop DWT as soon as you can. SMN has always been about planing ahead, that hasn't changed even if there is less of it now.

Never used it once in A8S. Pet only died if I messed up, which might have happened on like 2 or 3 pulls??? Mained SMN all of last expac with decent rankings without caring about speed clears and very good clear times while not killing myself raiding. Look up my achievements before assuming I don't know something. I said RDM utility is better than SMN. RDM utiility is broken, but RDM needs a nerf, not the other way around. Nerf RDM, take a look at balance after that, then consider a slight buff.

BLM has 0 utility. They are the SAM of casters. You will never do as much damage as they do, get over it. As for your comparison to RDM, you are wrong. Don't look at max parses, 95th percentile is a much more accurate depiction in terms of dps numbers. That is the peak of play without taking into account really good proc RNG (which SMNs have low play numbers and will have less of atm), speed kill strats, or derpy stuff where they are being fed balance the whole fight, or AoEing much more than a normal strat would.

O1S - 104 dps behind RDM - https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/17#boss=42&dataset=95

O2S - 88 dps behind RDM - https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/17#boss=43&dataset=95

O3S - 144 dps ahead of RDM - https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/17#boss=44&dataset=95

Exdeath - 9 dps ahead of RDM - https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/17#boss=45&dataset=95

Neo ExDeath - 35 dps behind RDM - https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/17#boss=46&dataset=95

[Magic-Mal]

DPS numbers

No one is asking or expecting SMN to be as strong as BLM, at least I'm not. But Yoshi has said that he doesn't like nerfing classes. Instead he buffs them. With RDMs utility being so strong, SMN and especially MCH need a pickup. BRD is okay since it has alot of utility. All SMN has is Raise, 5% damage up Devotion which sucks, and either 2% melee damage up or 10% magic damage up. And then it has low DPS. Going by your 95th percentile, losing to RDM 3/5 fights and baarrrrely winning in one fight. That shows that SMN needs a buff. It's utility doesn't cover for its low damage.

[Viridiana_Sovari]

No one is asking or expecting SMN to be as strong as BLM, at least I'm not. But Yoshi has said that he doesn't like nerfing classes. Instead he buffs them. With RDMs utility being so strong, SMN and especially MCH need a pickup. BRD is okay since it has alot of utility. All SMN has is Raise, 5% damage up Devotion which sucks, and either 2% melee damage up or 10% magic damage up. And then it has low DPS. Going by your 95th percentile, losing to RDM 3/5 fights and baarrrrely winning in one fight. That shows that SMN needs a buff. It's utility doesn't cover for its low damage.

He just nerfed Astro for the same exact reason RDM was too strong. Even if you get a slight bump in dps RDM will still be taken because dualcast VerRaise was a mistake. Until they fix that RDM will be brought to raid over other casters unless they are nerfed to the point they aren't viable. It is just too good for progression and cuts down on number of pulls needed to learn a fight by too much. You don't even have to take into account Embolden which honestly is about as good overall as pet buffs + Devotion. If you want a quality of life change so you can pick your Devotion target since pet responsiveness sucks, sure why not. A 10 or 20 potency increase to Ruin III/Ruin IV maybe. But the sky isn't falling and you aren't that far behind dps wise. RDM utility is simply OP. The people in this thread are acting like they need a 25% overall dps buff, when if anything SMN needs like 2-5% dps buff if anything. Which isn't significant enough to matter to anyone except world 1st / server 1st groups who are just going to take RDM anyways b/c crapping out VerRaise to learn the fight quicker is simply too good.

[Caduagm]

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Lmaoooo. Sure mate, you don't delay contagion to Summon Bahamut. Just leave this thread, man. You are just embarrassing yourself.
And I'm not talking about your unsynceds a8s. If you really knew the fight you'd know she can get hit by apocalyptic Ray/flamethrower and megabean.

[Viridiana_Sovari]

Lmaoooo. Sure mate, you don't delay contagion to Summon Bahamut. Just leave this thread, man. You are just embarrassing yourself.
And I'm not talking about your unsynceds a8s. If you really knew the fight you'd know she can get hit by apocalyptic Ray/flamethrower and megabean.

1) Killed A8S in April, content came out at the end of Feb. Better than the vast majority of people that killed it..

2) Either play with better healers or learn to position your pet properly. AoE heals heal your pet. When they were topping off the raid there your pet should have been topped off to. If not, you had him in the corner of the map. You play a pet class, pet management is part of that.

3) Learn to play your class. Line up every DWT cast with Contagion. Things line up perfectly that way and that means you get TA for every DWT as well if you are playing w/ a NIN. This also gives healers and PLD using Requiescat spam a more powerful dps window during TA. Just because DWT is castable doesn't mean you have to push the button. You have 44 seconds after DWT ends before you should be pushing it again if you are using Garuda. If you are using Ifrit you should be lining DWT and Bahamut up with party buffs where possible but not delaying to the point that you get less in a single fight. Just because an icon lights up doesn't mean you have to push it right away. You have a learn to play issue. Plain and simple.

[Ceallach]

3) Learn to play your class.

According to you, we should be using Dreadwyrm Trance, which makes us do 10% more magic damage and makes Ruin III much cheaper to spam, less often.

Really? Really?

At this point I'm convinced you don't know what a summoner is. Literally the only other summoner in the FINAL FANTASY series that was a pet job was in FINAL FANTASY XI, and that worked because it brought lots of utility to the party while beastmasters brought the damage (and puppetmasters collected dust because job balance in that game was hideous). All of those jobs were all about their pets and not much else at all. Summoner as it is right now is unplayable because of clunky pets, clunky burst rotations, being punished a thousand times harder for falling in battle compared to literally every other job in the game, split focus regarding what the job is meant to do and not matching up to the other DPS Disciple of Magic jobs in any area. Black mages do more damage and red mages have better utility, yes, which means summoners need something all their own that's actually worth a fig and without being clunky as all heck to stand a chance at being played seriously. This means summoners have problems. Nerfing jobs that don't deserve it instead of addressing actual problems will always be an unnecessary bandage. We, the summoner community, do not want that. We want real fixes, real overhauls and a real blasted summoner.

[Phoenicia]

According to you, we should be using Dreadwyrm Trance, which makes us do 10% more magic damage and makes Ruin III much cheaper to spam, less often.

Really? Really?[/I]

Not that I like to butt into battles that aren't mine. But the guy is literally saying you should line up abilities properly and not hold on to them too long you lose on usages. You, sir, have a L2Read problem. Go reread what he said. But since I know you won't, I'll help you.

First of, just because DWT is back up, doesn't mean you have to use it. It has 15s CD, but you can use it once per minute really (because of Aetherflow restrictions). If you didn't know THIS part, then it is YOU who doesn't know how SMN works.

Lining up DWT with Contagion (1min CD), NIN's Trick Attack (1min CD) and if the PLD is good, Requiescat (1min CD as well) is a MASSIVE raid DPS increase. Even if your dear Bahamut doesn't get to line up with Contagion.

Also, please, none of the "x class was so-or-so in FF<enter number>"... Also you're wrong about FFXI SMN being the only "pet" job.. In FFX the Yuna did exactly what they did in XI, summon a "pet" and keep it out there for a while. So did the summons in FFXII work in a similar manner.

They might have more stuff come 4.1 given how much harder it is to bring in extreme changes for non-essential jobs.

Just what do you mean by "non-essential jobs" exactly?... Unless you're talking about CUL or other DoH/L classes, EVERY "job" is essential when it comes to combat balance.

[Kazrah]

Just what do you mean by "non-essential jobs" exactly?... Unless you're talking about CUL or other DoH/L classes, EVERY "job" is essential when it comes to combat balance.

"Non-essential" basically means jobs in any role that isn't 100% required to clear typical content. In this case, that would be DPS jobs, as typical content doesn't normally have hard-set DPS timers.