Can Summoners Get Some Of These Combat Changes?

[loreleidiangelo]

To be honest, I think DoTs and Aetherflow "stacks" fit a combat strategist theme like SCH's more than they fit a raw primal energy channeler theme like SMN's. Aiding the wounded with Lily while crippling foes with poisons seems exactly like something a medic tactician of Nym would do, IMO. Bobble-head bits of colored aether about the size of an arm and Ruin spam is frankly borderline insulting to the practitioners of an ancient and controversial art once used in the Allagan frickin' Empire.

[kikix12]

It doesn't matter. A Scholar is a healer, an Arcanist is a DPS. That alone is absurd combination and I don't know who even though it could work out when they made Arcanist progress into either a Summoner or a Scholar.

There is nothing stopping them from changing the DoT-based Arcanist into whatever sort of pet user, or force user, they want once they separate it from the Summoner. It's still going to be a lot less work than remaking Arcanist to become a healer class. And DPS class should not ever turn into a healer class...period. Not in a game where hybrids are not allowed due to fixed party setups in standard content.

[Magic-Mal]

It also doesn't really matter because the goal here is to not simply say "Delete SMN", "Overhaul SMN", "SMN is insulting", because all of that is old stuff and pointless. The goal is to help improve on FFXIV's SMN not some other SMN. So please refrain from saying things like that. Because not only will they never ever overhaul SMN in a patch, there are alot of people, including me who enjoy SMN right now.

[Sylvina]

Theres really nothing wrong with the way Arcanist can turn into a healer class since it can ALSO turn into a DPS class, so people have a choice to switch to healer or remain dps. it also won't matter after level 30 anyway.

What needs to be fixed is summoner balance.

[kikix12]

Theres really nothing wrong with the way Arcanist can turn into a healer class since it can ALSO turn into a DPS class, so people have a choice to switch to healer or remain dps. it also won't matter after level 30 anyway.

What needs to be fixed is summoner balance.

Please actually read what is written. We're talking about the possibility of separating the Summoner and Scholar from each other, so there would be NO link. That means an Arcanist would turn ONLY into a healer...And that's what they are proposing here, while I say THAT is ridiculous.

And there is a problem with Arcanist turning into a healer, ESPECIALLY now. This very topic is largely caused by that. If there was no Scholar, Summoners in Stormblood would be far less messed up. That's because Arcanists would be made with only DPS in mind, thus they could be balanced easier. As it is now, you cannot give them too much DPS or Scholar will end up as a DPS class in the healers role. If you give them healers-level of DPS though, then we have Summoner that is a DPS with below-DPS...well...damage. Meaning that to get up to par with others, their Summoner-only skills, of which there is a limited amount, need to be noticeably stronger. But that makes other issues, as these skills would overshadow pre-Summoner skills. Not to mention, there is less space for utility abilities to go around.

Result?! We have a DPS that lacks tools he should have, only because his foundations are shared with a different class role.

Mind you, this is not the only reason for why Summoners have problems. But it IS part of the problem. I'm almost certain that Bane was nerfed so heavily for that very reason, for example. It just can't work when DPS and healers require different tools.

[Viridiana_Sovari]

snip

You are looking at 1 fight...

https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/17...gregate=amount

That shows all savage fights played at 95th percentile.

They are within 20 dps on average with rdm who are also low. Yet rdm is the most prominent in groups work O4S down. Also because rdm utility is so good, most of your highly skilled casters are playing RDM. This is the main reason I myself switched this tier and scews this data in RDMs favor. You won't get BLM level damage because they are the SAM if casters. No utility only dps. Think before you blindly look at numbers.

[Magic-Mal]

You are looking at 1 fight...

https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/17...gregate=amount

That shows all savage fights played at 95th percentile.

They are within 20 dps on average with rdm who are also low. Yet rdm is the most prominent in groups work O4S down. Also because rdm utility is so good, most of your highly skilled casters are playing RDM. This is the main reason I myself switched this tier and scews this data in RDMs favor. You won't get BLM level damage because they are the SAM if casters. No utility only dps. Think before you blindly look at numbers.

You look at a very specific number that has SMN at a higher place. Put it on Max Percentile and it's just as I said. SMN is second to last. Also, you switched to RDM because it's better than SMN obviously. More damage and utility. Nice! If most of the skilled casters are playing RDM as you say, maybe there's a problem?

[Viridiana_Sovari]

You look at a very specific number that has SMN at a higher place. Put it on Max Percentile and it's just as I said. SMN is second to last. Also, you switched to RDM because it's better than SMN obviously. More damage and utility. Nice! If most of the skilled casters are playing RDM as you say, maybe there's a problem?

95th percentile is what I use because it is the best to judge actually judge where classes sit. And I for 2 reasons. 1 SMN is boring as hell to play after the changes, which has nothing to do with their dps. 2, RDM utility is OP as hell for progression. With a RDM you can literally raise 4 times in a row with no issues and no long cast times, esp if you have a BRD or MCH in the group. It it OP for prog only based on that one thing because you get more exposure to a fight during prob out of every pull, decreasing your pull count for kills. I would have thought long and hard between BLM and SMN. If RDM utility doesn't change they will either be nerfed to where they aren't viable or they will always be the choice for prog. Plain and simple. That is not a SMN issue, it is a RDM issue. SMN could do several hundred dps more and I would still bring RDM over SMN.

[Viridiana_Sovari]

snip

so basically you want SMN to do more damage than SAM, have almost no dps loss due to movement, have the best AoE dps in the game, and better utility than everyone but maybe rdm? The meta would be bring 4 SMN with these changes...

[Dyvid]

so basically you want SMN to do more damage than SAM, have almost no dps loss due to movement, have the best AoE dps in the game, and better utility than everyone but maybe rdm? The meta would be bring 4 SMN with these changes...

Sorry but there is no way those changes I suggested could close a 700+ dps gap, no even close. At the very best it would push it right behind RDM.

Seriously though, do you use RDM or SMN in Savage. I mean I know the answer but since you think SMN is in such good shape and all......