{SPOILERS} So, how did you feel about...

[Draxis_Fallspear]

As has been said a few times, most of the legati are designed to reflect the antagonist from their corresponding FF game (idk about Regula ultimately because I stopped playing for a good while between 3.4 and 4.0)

So how did you feel about the connections between Xenos and Vayne? I thought the connection through a scientist's experiments was a nice nod. But his referring to Gods in his final monologue seemed a little forced as it had never really come up before.

Thoughts?

[Yuella]

Regula turned out to be an honorable antagonist like General Leo instead of someone like Kefka. Zenos and Vayne are both the sons of the emperors who became governor/viceroy of a conquered nation

[Draxis_Fallspear]

Regula turned out to be an honorable antagonist like General Leo instead of someone like Kefka. Zenos and Vayne are both the sons of the emperors who became governor/viceroy of a conquered nation

Just got Zurvan done and this was also my impression of Regula = General Leo. A great choice, IMO.

[Grayve]

My PS2 died before I could finish XII, so I don't know a thing about it.

[Quor]

Honestly, I think Zenos is closer to Kefka than to Vayne.

Both Zenos and Kefka are magitek enhanced, and while we don't know for sure if Zenos was like this prior to becoming Resonant, we do know that his prodigious combat ability basically led him to a state of perpetual ennui in which he would slaughter thousands just for the brief spark of enjoyment he would get when facing someone who didn't die instantly. So, still "touched" but less in a "flicking a switch" way than Kefka was.

Both were responsible for the destruction of Doma. Both used poison as well. Kefka used physical poison, and while the armies of the empire and Zenos himself defeated the Doman insurgency, it was his poison, in the form of Yotsuyu and her abject hatred for her people, that were ultimately driving them extinct. As Yugiri noted at Fluminis, the villagers you were trying to save were going to die of old age before they were returned to their villages. This was by Yotsuyu's design. She was cultural poison.

Both Zenos and Kefka had a fascination with destruction. Zenos called it "violence" but the end result was the same. Both also assumed the power of gods. Kefka with the Warring Triad, and Zenos with Shinryu.

Both also had their own cute young "slave." Kefka used the more direct and brutal version in the Slave Crown on Terra, while Zenos took Fordola's desire to prove herself on behalf of her people and twisted it until she basically enslaved herself to his will.

Finally, both of them ultimately accepted that if they were to truly serve their own ultimate ideal (for Kefka, destruction - for Zenos, violence) then they must ultimately die. While it can't be said for certain one way or another that Kefka killed himself, he certainly did sit there passively and accept his death when his time came, which in itself is a kind of suicide. And we all know what happened to Zenos.

[Theodric]

Vayne was ruthless but he actually cared about Archades. Zenos only cared about getting a good fight and didn't care for Garlemald at all. The only similarities to Vayne are that Zenos, too, had a mad scientist working in the background. I was actually hoping - and still am - that the XII references would be heavier and lead us to getting someone similar to Larsa. A man - or woman - that is loyal to Garlemald and her people but is not opposed to the idea of peace and seeks to reach out in an attempt to secure it. Whilst at the same time not allowing the Eorzean Alliance or Warrior of Light to get away with casually slaughtering Garleans unless strictly necessary.

[Cilia]

Vayne and Zenos do have a number of similarities.

-Son of the current Emperor
-Chosen to rule a conquered territory
-Worked with a scientist deemed mad
-Obtained an artificial copy of a normally divine gift
-Took on the form of a dragon for the final battle

Their personalities couldn't be more different, ruthlessness aside, but Zenos definitely fits the bill.

Still not sure when we slaughtered Garleans not in self-defense or without need. We let anyone who stands down live... and more often than not they attack us without mercy. So...

[Theodric]

Still not sure when we slaughtered Garleans not in self-defense or without need. We let anyone who stands down live... and more often than not they attack us without mercy. So...

Well, there's the utter lack of an attempt at diplomacy. The Warrior of Light and Scions attempted to broker peace between the Ishgardians and Dravanians. They failed, multiple times - but persisted regardless. Even after meeting reasonable Garleans such as Regula they failed to even acknowledge the possibility of peace - and if they continue to avoid trying to secure it then they're simply massive hypocrites. They're now supporting destablising territory that isn't theirs to reclaim - causing fear and panic. I hope the Scions and their allies pay dearly in blood for any Garleans who lose their children, lovers or friends in rebellions incited in otherwise peaceful territory. We already know that not every part of the Empire is a cesspit - some territories are virtually unchanged by Garlean rule. We've heard it but we'll likely see it for ourselves in due time.

Yet the longer the Warrior of Light and his allies fail to attempt diplomacy, the more needless bloodshed there will be. I suspect that you'll counter with 'but the Garleans aren't interested' but even if that turns out to be true (which is unlikely, given the mixed opinions on things like the Meteor Project) it doesn't change the simple fact that the Warrior of Light and his allies refused to take 'no' for an answer when it came to peace between the Dravanians and the Ishgardians.

It's not like there isn't a mutual goal in regards to putting an end to the Primal/Eikon threat once and for all, either. Here's hoping we'll see the Garlean Consulate in Kugane used to discuss potential diplomacy with someone along the lines of Regula, Reeve, Larsa or Drace. Ideally someone who will just as readily call out the Eorzeans for their dubious elements just as quickly as calling out Garlemald's own.

[dynus]

Zenos also has some things in common with Exdeath. They're huge fighters who love combat, seek conquest and use dangerous powers to do it; Exdeath via the void and Zenos using the Pseudo Echo. And they have giant minions who they give second chances but then get rid of them (Gilgamesh and Grynwaht).

Granted there's a lot of differences too. Zenos is nowhere near as hammy as Exdeath. Also, Exdeath starts as a conqueror who turns into a nihilistic omnicidal manic, whereas Zenos starts out feeling nihilistic, but becomes ... happier for lack of better term, throughout the story.

I guess one could say that Zenos represents both FFV and FFXII.

[Cilia]

Well, there's the utter lack of an attempt at diplomacy.

[...]

It's not like there isn't a mutual goal in regards to putting an end to the Primal/Eikon threat once and for all, either. Here's hoping we'll see the Garlean Consulate in Kugane used to discuss potential diplomacy with someone along the lines of Regula, Reeve, Larsa or Drace. Ideally someone who will just as readily call out the Eorzeans for their dubious elements just as quickly as calling out Garlemald's own.

It's impossible to engage in diplomatic relations with people actively trying to kill you - which, other than Regula (after he tried to kill us three times, no less), has always been the case. Self-defense is a perfectly valid reason to fight and kill, and I doubt many would consider preserving sovereignty or restoring liberty invalid reasons either.

The Doman shinobi encouraged rebellion. They did not, to our knowledge, engage in or encourage terrorist acts or force those who preferred Imperial rule to abandon it. We also have no evidence of Garlean civilians living in the few provincial territories we've seen, so to my knowledge the likelihood of Garlean civilians being killed in any such uprising is low. Military deaths, while equally tragic, are an occupational hazard.

We were able to broker peace between the Ishgardians and Dravanians precisely because there were Dravanians willing to engage in diplomacy. We have yet to meet such a Garlean (other than Regula who is now dead), and I wholeheartedly encourage brokering peace with them if at all possible. However, in the meantime I will not tell those suffering and dying at the Empire's hands "Sorry, we're waiting to engage in diplomacy with them."

We have the same goal, ending the issue of primals, but until the Empire is willing to reach out and talk to us instead of engaging in aggressive negotiations all the time we can't exactly make peace with them. Regula was a perfect opportunity for this, which is why I am so disappointed he had to go full General Leo and get himself killed. The Garlean Consulate may be used for this purpose - I'd like to think it's there for a reason beyond illustrating that Kugane is neutral territory and for delivering bath water to - but that remains to be seen (and I'd like to think everything has a purpose, but that's not always true, lol).

... and, other than wars of self-defense against the Empire, Eorzea's dubious elements are largely self-contained. The inverse does not hold true, which is the core of the problem.