Cleared O1S w/ MCH in party; Don't lose hope

[Nora_of_Mira]

Though to be honest: we cleared during the enrage animation so it was really close. We had a weird comp too, DRG, BLM, RDM, MCH. Really fun fight when everyone knows what to do. \o/

[CosmicKirby]

As a MCH who was a rep in a group that had me AND a BRD, AND a DRG, and yet we still cleared O2S within one lockout....

Neither fight is all that difficult, at least from a numbers perspective. As long as mechanics are performed correctly, the fights don't have any real DPS check to them.

That being said, it'd be nice to have a reason to be brought along compared to BRD. If not being able to do more damage, than having a utility that they don't beyond hypercharge.

[Areic]

Yeah, sure you can clear 1 and probably 2 with a bad DPS comp, and thats nice, but they really need buffed because you're not gonna see many raids trying 3 and 4 with a mch unless everyone is just really good or really geared for it

[SlayerOmega]

Hello. MCH here. We're on V3S, having no issue meeting dps checks. Seen 50% on first night and just dieing to mechanics. I expect all the fights will be clearable with a mch. Its more just the logistics of the class compared to BRD. MCH just doesnt bring anything worthwhile to the table. Which is the ultimate issue.

On a tangent for those who dont think you can clear fights with a MCH you are all fools. And just trying to blame your shortcomings on a class meme to cover it up. Get good. I see 3200dps SAMs blame wipes in DF on the MCH not doing enough damage. Dude YOU'RE the one not doing enough damage. Just cause you do more, youre still doing 800 less dps then what you should be doing. Get good before you start blaming other classes.

Sorry, just stuff like that really triggers me.

[Nora_of_Mira]

Hello. .

Yeah, I totally feel you. I don't think MCHs can't clear the new raids but I know a lot of people in my FC read one or 2 things and get persuaded to not even try. And I totally agree about the SAMs i get paired up with. As a spiteful DRG main, seeing them doing less or equal DPS to me makes me #triggered.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

I don't think MCHs can't clear the new raids but I know a lot of people in my FC read one or 2 things and get persuaded to not even try.

THIS is where the problem lies. The job needs improvements, but it's not impossible to play or clear content with. However when so much bad PR is put out there, you end up with people who might otherwise be just fine doing what they want to do as a MCH becoming demoralized and not even trying. That is what I don't want to see happen, and that is why I so actively challenge statements that are overblown and tear the job down as if it were completely unusable.

[Zojha]

Did you know A12S got beaten with CLASSES and without Echo?

Omega is supposed to be at the Creator level of difficulty, so it's fair to assume that any "Job" combination will be able to clear, provided they get enough gear and have sufficient skill to offset balancing problems. Super Savage might be a different topic, tho.

[Nora_of_Mira]

Did you know A12S got beaten with CLASSES and without Echo?

Omega is supposed to be at the Creator level of difficulty, so it's fair to assume that any "Job" combination will be able to clear, provided they get enough gear and have sufficient skill to offset balancing problems. Super Savage might be a different topic, tho.

Yeah, I know. This post was kind of a jest towards the "no MCH allowed in pf" meme and the overly negative reaction a lot of people are having with the MCH changes.

[Kaonis]

The thing is, the arguments surrounding MCH DPS wasn't about their viability for savage, as their DPS doesn't appear atrocious or anything, it was about justification bringing them over a BRD. Which is the heart of the issue as people serious about raiding and clearing will pick BRD, not because MCH DPS is bad, but because BRD does the same DPS or greater as a MCH, but brings much better utility. Its a safer class to bring if you want any sort of edge on clearing the content. And if you're not in a group of the best of the best, you'll need etra advantages to clear things safely.

[Cetonis]

The DPS gap is pretty minor, like Kaonis said. The sky-is-falling MCH-is-trash stuff has always been vastly overblown. It's more that what gaps exist are kind of plain to the naked eye.

However, as on-paper impressive as Bard's support can be when you list it all out, in reality land it can be pretty situational. On O3S for instance, Troubadour and Minne don't really do much. There's only one really good Troub spot, and not a lot of throughput tank healing needed. Most of the healing pressure is on group heals in advance of singular hits.

Meanwhile, Machinist can Dismantle most / all of the scarier DWaves, and a few of the adds are timed nicely to Wildfire them and make them dead quick. So although Bard will get to boost their dps numbers due to the various adds they can double-DoT, I'm not sure that Machinist isn't actually better for getting the clear with the way that fight is constructed.

There's not a lot of throughput healing in O2S either, so MCH should be quite fine for that too. Minne can do some work on O1S, but it's not hard enough to be seriously concerned.

On O4S, at least for the first phase which I've seen, with current gear Troubadour is looking quite handy. Serious group heal checks with damage coming across several skills at one point. So that may be a fight where having a MCH does make things harder early on (the same way having SAM over MNK might).