DoH need major changes just like battle classes

[Bourne_Endeavor]

You're saying not just on Balmung, but any highly populated server would have the issue in general, not just because the skills seem too easy. On servers with less crafters, it actually became more accessible and a healthier economy. It's not just about the big servers.

This simply isn't the case. At least not in reference to the perceived dilemma. Balmung does have an overabundance of crafters, yes, yet new crafted gear prices didn't plummet within days throughout Heavensward. Why? High level recipes necessitated overmelding. Not a single current craft requires more than a handful of old materia to meet the requirements since you can easily brute force through. Such isn't the result of an economical shift, but a noticeable reduction in recipe difficulty relative to the new abilities. Put plainly, Stormblood crafting is considerably easier. We would have seen this exact trend in Heavensward were there abilities like Rapid Synthesis and Manipulation II.

We have posts complaining about mat consumption so some items are still bottlenecked like Worsted Yarn

The complaint with things like Worsted Yarn relates strictly to the sheer volume associated. A fair few crafters want more focus on crafting materials, not hunting mobs on their battle jobs for hours on end because their retainers don't bring enough back per hour.

The problem is mindset. We've done this for 3 (4 if you really want to count 1.0) iterations of this game now. People expect the same kind of market strategy as the past one. That's not gonna work. People already guessed those patterns and were immediately getting ready to capitalize on it. The Devs probably figured that out and didn't want the same kind of economy that left players frustrated. Smaller servers can grow better now because more people can craft and gather. Players can take more breaks.

I'll be blunt. You give the devs too much credit. I sincerely doubt they looked into the nuisance of crafting. They changed it for easier accessibility and little else. The stronger abilities were added because they spent two years attempting to make it so you needn't level all your crafters just to be successful. The Specialist system; Red Scrips and etc were all supposed to slow down Omni-crafters while giving players who only wished to focus on a couple crafts a chance to make decent money. It failed spectacularly. Stormblood simplified the whole process by slapping on arguably overtuned abilities that make things like Waste Not II worthless. There was no big economical swing. Just a "dumbing down." Like I said, I don't entirely disagree with the decision. I do, however, feel they went too far in the opposite direction. High level crafting shouldn't be effortless. Right now, it is.

Third problem is people treating this tier as the same as the third or later tier of a previous patch. You didn't need to seriously meld early on either. I remember back in HW people had figured out melds that didn't take extreme overmelding at first either, then when a later patch dropped they fell behind and needed to pentameld. You think those players repeated that mistake and aren't pentamelded now (and then are upset that they didn't need to meld that way to meet stats?..oh how many have forgotten).

Heavensward released the craftable AF2 gear during 3.05, which was BiS. Not only have they delayed it with Stormblood, the Yellow Scrip gear equivalent is completely worthless in every way.

[Elamys]

I don't exactly agree with that part about battle classes. A lot of raiders complain endlessly when content is made "easier". Those who are late into Savage content face a lot of derision.

I don't think it's a bad thing to have easier crafts, but why not a set of crafts for people who are more dedicated, just like there is in raiding? It could just be stuff like glamour gear for all I care - just give us something, please. I consider myself a crafting main these days, I'd like to see something that makes it worth my time.

[QT_Melon]

Asinine tripe. All you have are vapid platitudes.

I don't think making a giant essay is proving anything here.

I have still been making steady amounts of income just fine with high profit margins since raid food is still desirable, potions and so forth. The raid gear fell in price quickly in HW too.

The problem is you expected the exact same buying patterns on SB for gear as you did mid HW. So did other crafters, that isn't being smart.

When you rely on the same buying patterns assuming that it should stay that way with exclusivity, it isn't going to work. Especially since this is the first tier of patches.

If anything markets in middle priced items were left vacant.

There weren't many recipes worth doing in the first tier of HW either. It was pretty much glamour because there wasn't good end game gear then either.

[Clicked]

What an awful excuse of a crafting system we would have if the crafters didn't require materials from each other. That's what makes the crafting game complex/fun. We are already reduced to one-button cooks and potion makers at end game... no need to make the leveling process feel way too.

[Driavna]

What an awful excuse of a crafting system we would have if the crafters didn't require materials from each other. That's what makes the crafting game complex/fun. We are already reduced to one-button cooks and potion makers at end game... no need to make the leveling process feel way too.

I have so much fun jumping from one DoH to another to craft sub-components each time I do it! Something like that only makes sense when you can only be one DoH, right now it's a minor annoyance not even supported by the MB (you are forced to buy a whole stack instead of the amount you want/need).

[Clicked]

I have so much fun jumping from one DoH to another to craft sub-components each time I do it! Something like that only makes sense when you can only be one DoH, right now it's a minor annoyance not even supported by the MB (you are forced to buy a whole stack instead of the amount you want/need).

Not going to argue that the MB couldn't use some serious work. You can always buy a stack of stuff then resell the rest once you're done but I agree that's a huge inconvenience.

(Protip to others: Sell stuff in reasonably-sized stacks. You will sell your stuff faster and can charge a bit more for the convenience of selling smaller stacks.)

[QT_Melon]

The prices DID plummet within days in HW when the third raid tier went out. It's because people "knew the game" by then. The second tier took longer, and there wasn't even a first tier in HW cuz it wasn't worth it. The Devs brought it back and the second time it plummeted fairly fast, and even faster once Rath's rotation became the end game rotation. I find people complaining about Prudent being bad, when most had it figured out using that same rotation all the way through an expansion.

People wanted the first raid tier to be easier. Guess what, it is. Expecting the same market pattern when they were trying to close the gap between players. Sorry, but that already showed they weren't gonna make crafted gear needed as much for that. It's great though for players who missed the weeklies and need catch up gear.

The craftable AF2 gear, most didn't bother with it because they hated the scrip system with caps. People were still wearing white gear UNTIL craftable raid gear was a thing again in HW. The fact they had to change the favors system multiple times because people "Gave up crafting" in HW. So that was another issue.

Once someone figured out a rotation, high level crafting became effortless in about every Xpac, Raths being the biggest offender since the rotation didn't change. The only bottlenecks came from melds. As stated before, RNG doesn't make crafting more difficult for pros, it's artificial. The only way crafting is going to be more challenging is if you had some kind of restrictions like the Ixali quests or a "PoTD" version...where a penalty like "Maximum CP decreased" "Byregot's Blessing Disabled".

[Bourne_Endeavor]

No they didn't. I was selling Heavy Metal Axes two weeks after they released for nearly two million a pop-- on a server notorious for its substantially lower prices. What kept those crafts valuable was the meld requirements. You couldn't reach the 995/955 check without Ironworks and proper pentamelds, thus people weren't able to brute force their way through unless they gambled RNG. Currently, you needs only reach the cap on any given craft and it's done. I don't mind the eased difficulty in theory, but it shouldn't spread to every craft available.

And people said Creator was too easy. Hence why they're scaling a separate fight exclusively for the hardcore raiders. There is a difference between easier and effortless. People claiming the current recipes are too easy aren't necessarily saying everything should be an RNG nightmare. They're saying it's so easy, they can macro it and not even pay attention aka effortless.

[QT_Melon]

They did fall for us in the third tier of HW and pretty quick. That's great if your server kept the prices but they definitely took a dive here before. I remember the complaints because other crafters had said they were being undercut heavily. You only had a few days to maximize profits because afterwards everyone else wanted in on the market. There's also the fact if someone undercuts what's deemed as "high demand" items there are a group of high end crafters that will always try to control the market. They'll band together and undercut even further to try to drive those that did mess with the prices even further out of the market. That or they buy out the gear that's lower priced and relist them to keep it artificially high.

I mean there is such thing as price fixing even in this game.

Product still keeps moving, it's just not at the same expected price as before. Some of which is a good thing because more of it moves now.