Dropped Items and Materia

[NoctisUmbra]

Knowing them, they'll just put the bonuses on the crafted gear, anyway. . .

Idk... I never played XI, so correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't XI have set bonuses mainly on rare/ex gear?

[Stufoo]

Idk... I never played XI, so correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't XI have set bonuses mainly on rare/ex gear?

What does that have to do with anything? It's not like MMO gear has rules carved into stone millions of years ago that people blindly follow or can't break. Set bonuses can go where ever they want and are needed, and that's exactly the thing. Set bonuses shouldn't be restricted to rare/ex drops just like materia shouldn't be restricted to crafted items, and for this game to have an endgame worth caring about all three groups of classes will have to intermingle with bosses and monster drops, rare materials, rare gathers, and multiple types of items that are worth using (Straight EX drops, crafted abjuration style EX items, Unique rare crafted items, etc) or someone is going to be really pissed off. No one wants to see only one type of item be the best, but at the moment we just want a reason to even leave the town to progress our characters. There is a balance that is easily attainable and the devs don't even seem to be reaching for it. I see all this potential, and I see squandering, god damn it.

But like Brannigan said, Sets shouldn't be about making up for 6-12 materia slots worth of stats, it should be for small unique bonuses. It would be extremely boring to collect what are essentially junk pieces until you get the full set, and then after five or however many bosses you are now 'even' with crafted trash gear with materia melds. Yawn. Set bonuses should be smaller, unique things, and I don't even like the "full set" set bonuses, additive bonuses are better (where the set bonus gets better as you have more but it doesn't require them all.) All base items should be competitive, especially if they come from bosses (or their materials do), and hopefully they figure out how to implement item tiers soon.

[Brannigan]

Idk... I never played XI, so correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't XI have set bonuses mainly on rare/ex gear?

If itemization in this game was anything like XI (or any successful MMORPG for that matter) this thread would not exist

[NoctisUmbra]

I didn't mean to say set bonuses should make up for materia melds - though I suppose my timing may have made it come off that way. I just want to see some Set Bonuses come into this game. I agree they should be unique effects.

As for bringing up XI - although they didn't exactly copy that game when making XIV - it would be probable that they refer to it when implementing a design that it also shared.

[Brannigan]

Set bonuses would be nice but they don't really solve any of the problems with the materia system, such as:

-Powerful materia and multi-melds making dropped/quested gear from real content unappealing
-Unmeldable gear that is strong enough to stand on its own making materia eventually fall out of use
-Powerful gear being obtained through luck and gil alone, with no need for the player to ever step outside of the city

For the materia system to really work ALL GEAR needs at least 1 meld enabled - no matter what color its name happens to be. This creates a standard set of stats (for example, Paladins will always have access to enmity on their belt and weapon regardless of what the actual stats on their equipment are) and allows for real customization options (in the case of a Warrior picking between enmity, parry, strength, etc. for their weapon).

Having U/U items act only as filler gear until you can manage to multi-meld a generic crafted piece is 100% backwards and completely ridiculous. At the same time, having the entire materia system act only as filler until you can get a good U/U item is a waste of a system and developer effort. What we have now is a system with good intentions (give max level players a reason to go grind via spiritbond and keep crafting somewhat useful by churning out generic gear) but really poor execution (Multi-melds producing insane gear via lottery, Gla/Con/Thm dropped weapons being useless in their main roles, unmeldable gear outside of a select few pieces being garbage, doesn't actually remove any gil from the system)


The other problems with the materia system like the overabundance of Mind III and Manathirst floating around can be dealt with in a number of ways. One idea I've seen tossed around is combining two of the same tier of materia to create one random higher tier materia. For example, you put a Mind III, a Parry III, and 500 gil into a goblin's machine and get a Dexterity IV. For two IVs you could just produce another IV, or maybe have them grind up into a crafting reagent or melding catalyst. Just whatever to get them filtering out of the game.

[Jinko]

Enmity: +25

LOL you say that as if its no problem at all /sigh

There is one aspect we are all over looking and its epic (purple) gear, they may have plans later down the road to add such a thing.

Yoshi hinted at making certain items legendary in one of his interviews. (Excaliber etc)

[Kiara]

Set bonuses would be nice but they don't really solve any of the problems with the materia system, such as:

-Powerful materia and multi-melds making dropped/quested gear from real content unappealing
-Unmeldable gear that is strong enough to stand on its own making materia eventually fall out of use
-Powerful gear being obtained through luck and gil alone, with no need for the player to ever step outside of the city

For the materia system to really work ALL GEAR needs at least 1 meld enabled - no matter what color its name happens to be. This creates a standard set of stats (for example, Paladins will always have access to enmity on their belt and weapon regardless of what the actual stats on their equipment are) and allows for real customization options (in the case of a Warrior picking between enmity, parry, strength, etc. for their weapon).

Having U/U items act only as filler gear until you can manage to multi-meld a generic crafted piece is 100% backwards and completely ridiculous. At the same time, having the entire materia system act only as filler until you can get a good U/U item is a waste of a system and developer effort. What we have now is a system with good intentions (give max level players a reason to go grind via spiritbond and keep crafting somewhat useful by churning out generic gear) but really poor execution (Multi-melds producing insane gear via lottery, Gla/Con/Thm dropped weapons being useless in their main roles, unmeldable gear outside of a select few pieces being garbage, doesn't actually remove any gil from the system)

Well said Brannigan.

Even with Set Bonuses, it would be very hard to compete with 1 regular, crafted piece of equipment that had ~2 - 3 Materia on there. That example you brought up with someone having a Cobalt Belt with 3 Materia (heck, even 2) is a great example of the problems endemic with the Materia System and Unique / Untradeable System the way it is now. As an example, what stats on the new Paladin Belt could top the example you showed us?

* Cobalt Plate Belt: DEF 28, VIT +2, DEX +1, MND +2, Enmity +24 (with 3 Materia Meld)

* Paladin Belt: (Example Only) DEF 30, VIT +5, HP Regen +2%

Sure we get a unique Trait / Bonus that can only be found on the Paladin Belt (HP Regen), but does that really make up for +24 Enmity?

If they make the Unique Bonus super great (e.g., let's say it's HP Regen +20% (extreme example)), then it invalidates the crafting side completely as well, and people will just go for the "Best in Slot" (now found as a Unique / Untradeable Artifact Armor piece).

The best way to "marry" the two systems (Materia System and Raid Drops that are Unique / Untradeable) is to allow Materia melding on the U/U items. You get the best of both worlds that way.

Or as others have mentioned, the old Open World NMs dropping a unique item to be crafted (so Crafters and Adventurers were involved (liked Dodore Doublet)) is a nice compromise as well.

I just fear what may happen in the next patch (1.21) if they don't do any changes to the systems: Either the Artifact Armor / JSE Sets for Jobs will be invalidated by the Crafted Materia pieces (making the AF for looks only), or the AF Armor is better than most 2 - 3 Materia Builds, which would invalidate the Crafted work (and upset Crafters). Or, they might provide situational pieces that are ~somewhat OK, but only in certain instances, but again, is that really a good solution with No Gear Swapping for combat?

[Brannigan]

Well I doubt we'll be seeing u/u gear be meldable before 2.0 but I really, really hope they do it. If they don't then gear will be boring (every paladin belt and weapon needing enmity, etc) or useless (like it is now!).

At this point I don't think they should be worried about upsetting crafters. Crafting basically controls the entire game and it'd be nice to have some stuff that doesn't completely rely on grinding a bad minigame.

[Brannigan]

Dear SE,

my future Christmas wish is that you make all gear meldable or at least make it so I'm doing something to obtain good gear other than brainlessly grinding crafts and materia.

Love,

William Q. Brannigan

[Zantetsuken]

... old Open World NMs dropping a unique item to be crafted (so Crafters and Adventurers were involved (liked Dodore Doublet)) is a nice compromise as well.

^ I'm all in favor of this. ^

DH, Ifrit, Moogles, etc.. should all drop materials for crafting uber items. And those items could be meldable (perhaps with a slot limit or larger risk)

This fix would help address the current drop rate issues (replace all weapon/totem drops with crafted items and you can have the item/weapon you want crafted) and it would make the endgame content much more popular.

Also, I wonder if the devs underestimated how quick and easy it is for ppl to make materia.