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  1. #1
    Player
    Kaurhz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    3,546
    Character
    Asuka Kirai
    World
    Sagittarius
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 90

    RDM - What am I doing wrong if anything?

    So I've always been interested in attempting harder content in the game though I've never really bothered to delve into it til now (Thanks to crafting being a joke), though I feel as though my numbers as RDM are still fairly low. Sufficient to run content to extreme primals, but insufficient stat-wise. I've only ever tested it when geared to how I am now

    To give some context and an idea of what I'm exactly working with stat wise:
    --------------
    INT: 2261
    CHR: 1183
    DET: 979
    DHR: 1671
    SpS: 1292
    --------------
    Gear wise, I'm equipped with full i320 crafted gear, except 1x i290 crafted HQ ring, and i300 Arhat headpiece. All 100% slots melded to t5/6.

    In terms of rotation when I'm on the dummy (Bear in mind this is a rough so don't take it for literal as we know how dynamic and changing it is based on procs..

    Acceleration
    hardcast Thunder (grants Dualcast/Verfire)
    (Move to Autoattack range) Aero(proc)
    Contre/Fleche(weaved)
    verfire
    dualcasted Aero/Thunder (depending on mana needs)
    Displacement/Corps-a-Corps(weaved)
    Jolt II
    (1) Verfire/Verstone > Thunder/Aero (Depending if previous dualcasted spell procs & on mana requirements)
    ---Continue this til 40/40-49-49 (Preferably unbalanced) & casting according to proc priority & using Contre/Fleche between dualcasted spells when off cooldown, alongside acceleration when possible---
    Manafication
    Enchanted Riptose > Embolden > Enchanted Zwerch > Enchanted redoublement
    Displacement
    Verflare/Verholy (depending on the lower MP)
    Corps-a-Corps
    Verstone/Verfire (depending on proc)
    Back to (1)
    --Continue to 80/80+ (preferably slightly unbalanced), again, casting according to proc priority, using the usual contre/fleche between dualcasted spells and when off cooldown, alongside acceleration when possible--

    That's the general rotation I've been following (hope it can be understood), my cutoff point is just where the rotation usually cycles itself, to an additional queue, when building to 80/80, do you use all procs available, or leave them until after melee stance? Also, has anyone ever have a scenario where they find all spells are proc'd simultaneously? E.g verfire/verstone/impact (Sometimes with dualcast up, and acceleration off cooldown), if so how do you deal with it?

    It usually produces a 4.4k or so opener on the dummy, then settles to be around 3907-3979 on the SSS dummy. I do understand in a raid/trial DPS may fluctuate to be higher or lower depending on buffs, downtime etc etc. But are these figures something I should be expecting bearing in mind gear, Or greater? To note this 'rotation' often does land me on the verge of another melee cycle, but gets cutoff by the 3min mark. If you're hoping to stalk my melds on Lodestone, I'd recommend doing it on my secondary (Maria Azalea) rather than my main character.

    Thanks
    (0)
    Last edited by Kaurhz; 07-21-2017 at 04:31 AM.

  2. #2
    Player
    Ferrasper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    438
    Character
    Doctor Fumbles
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 70
    Why would you ever hard cast verthunder? You start off with Jolt 2. Hard casting something like that is foolish. You also don't have to move to auto-attack range. You are a caster mainly. You only get in close to melee when you corps-a-corps.
    (1)

  3. #3
    Player
    MidnightTundra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    177
    Character
    Luciana Wolf
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrasper View Post
    Why would you ever hard cast verthunder? You start off with Jolt 2. Hard casting something like that is foolish. You also don't have to move to auto-attack range. You are a caster mainly. You only get in close to melee when you corps-a-corps.
    Why wouldn't you start to hardcast thunder 5s before the pull? Also being a caster doesn't mean you have to be at Wal-Mart casting spells while your party is relatively stacked for healing and buffs.
    (7)

  4. #4
    Player
    Ferrasper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    438
    Character
    Doctor Fumbles
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by MidnightTundra View Post
    Why wouldn't you start to hardcast thunder 5s before the pull? Also being a caster doesn't mean you have to be at Wal-Mart casting spells while your party is relatively stacked for healing and buffs.
    Because the cast takes too long that's why. It would be easier to start if off with Jolt 2 or fleche. Coming from a caster main with all three at 70. The closer you are grouped with others. The more likely aoe are to target you which is why you stay mid-range to far away, so yes, standing a little distance away from the bosses close aoes and such is a good thing. You can still still be close enough for buffs and such mid-range and not be in the fray like you are melee. You are called ranged for a reason.

    I am not talking about the corps-a-corpse because obviously you have to get in close for the combo. You always have to plan that one out just in case it goes into a phase or something.
    (0)
    Last edited by Ferrasper; 07-21-2017 at 11:29 AM.

  5. #5
    Player
    Rawrz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    1,704
    Character
    Sir Rawrz
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrasper View Post
    Because the cast takes too long that's why. It would be easier to start if off with Jolt 2 or fleche. Coming from a caster main with all three at 70. The closer you are grouped with others. The more likely aoe are to target you which is why you stay mid-range to far away, so yes, standing a little distance away from the bosses close aoes and such is a good thing. You can still still be close enough for buffs and such mid-range and not be in the fray like you are melee. You are called ranged for a reason.
    Yeah dont care about your other casters. Accel at 10 seconds. Diverson at 7. Verthunder at 5.

    We are casters not ranged. You're not very knowledgeable about rdm efficiency lol.
    (4)

  6. #6
    Player
    Ferrasper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    438
    Character
    Doctor Fumbles
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Rawrz View Post
    Yeah dont care about your other casters. Accel at 10 seconds. Diverson at 7. Verthunder at 5.

    We are casters not ranged. You're not very knowledgeable about rdm efficiency lol.
    Ranged as in fighting at ranged. Not the physical ranged. True, BLM is my main, so our preferences our a little different. It just seems counter-intuitive to hard-cast when you have dual cast right there. I still don't see the risks for a little extra dps be worth it to be in melee range all the time on the boss. Seems foolish and foolhardy in my opinion. I will leave it at that though since I do well enough when I do play RDM, and I will stick to my style.
    (0)

  7. #7
    Player
    aldoteng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    31
    Character
    Miss Universe
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    Goldsmith Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrasper View Post
    Because the cast takes too long that's why. It would be easier to start if off with Jolt 2 or fleche.
    The length of cast time does not matter for pre-pull.
    (7)

  8. #8
    Player
    Stormblessed9000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    56
    Character
    Teloran Stormblessed
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 76
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrasper View Post
    Why would you ever hard cast verthunder? You start off with Jolt 2. Hard casting something like that is foolish. You also don't have to move to auto-attack range. You are a caster mainly. You only get in close to melee when you corps-a-corps.
    The hard cast verthunder is only done pre-pull when you have a countdown. That way, you can make sure it goes off just as the battle starts, allowing it to be done without any wasted cast time.

    As for the auto attacks, as far as I'm aware you do get some during the GCD from dual cast but not during hard casts. As such, it is a dps increase to stand in melee range, but can be fairly dangerous since we're squishier than actual melee classes.
    (1)

  9. #9
    Player
    Leyati87's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    19
    Character
    Leyati A'vett
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 70
    You'd want to pre-cast your first spell to be optimal on BLM too, though.
    (4)

  10. #10
    Player
    Cherub's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Floating City of Nym
    Posts
    392
    Character
    Miasma Eschaton
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 90
    Every caster precasts.
    Summoner precasts Ruin III
    BLM precast Blizzard III

    The reason why they do that is to be optimal.
    There is literally 0 reason why RDM should not hardcast a Veraero/Thunder 5 seconds before the pull. It's stronger than Jolt II, gives you a direct chance to proc if you use it without accel, it grants you dualcast. This is very simple to understand, really.
    Since it's prepull, the cast time doesn't even matter. The fight hasn't started yet. At that point it's a simple comparison, 230 potency and 6 mana and impactful proc OR 270 potency, 11 mana and fire/stone proc. The choice is quite obvious.
    You can stay whereever you want with RDM, staying in melee ranged just helps for little bits since you won't have to run into the boss to use certain attacks, assuming corps a corps is down because it should be used for DPS. I prefer to stay in melee range because corps a corps most of the time is on CD so I don't rely on it to get in range.
    (2)

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