MCH changes, pls test your stuff beforehand SE

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

The point's been made, and to death really. But in terms of what's absolute best, and with the way people speak almost absolutely about these things, you make it sound like if your comp isn't SAM/NIN/RDM/BRD, then go home. It can't be done. This is obviously not true, so put your pitchforks down. And before the Gordias example is brought up again, this isn't Gordias. That won't happen again if SE is smart. And from the sound of things in this tier, you can clear even without the ideal comp.

This is another reason I generally mock metas. Not saying they're not valid, but they're not absolute either.

[Elnidfse]

This has to do with balance. Not being the best at anything boss. And no. You're not clearing V4S as easily with x than you can with y.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

This has to do with balance. Not being the best at anything boss. And no. You're not clearing V4S as easily with x than you can with y.

So it's absolutely impossible? Like absolutely, guaranteed can't be done? Tell your MCH to go level BRD, doesn't matter if they're good at it or not, just level it and play it cause "utility" will get you the clear. Right?

Okay, give that all logical discussion has degenerated into this. . . nah, just okay.

Better make sure you level everything else and become proficient at it. Never know when the meta's gonna tell you what to play.

[Elnidfse]

So it's absolutely impossible? Like absolutely, guaranteed can't be done? Tell your MCH to go level BRD, doesn't matter if they're good at it or not, just level it and play it cause "utility" will get you the clear. Right?

Okay, give that all logical discussion has degenerated into this. . . nah, just okay.

Better make sure you level everything else and become proficient at it. Never know when the meta's gonna tell you what to play.

Did you even skim my post? Nowhere did I say it was impossible.
1)I said it would be easier to do X than it will be to do it with Y.
2)From what I heard, the current A4S had to rearrange their team because they were taking obscene amounts of damage given everybodies gear level. These are players with a much higher skill level than myself changing lineup because the current content is difficult
3)If you're going to be this glib and frankly rude please don't expect a meaningful discussion from me in the future.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

I'm really not privvy to continue reading any of this honestly if it's just gonna become a job bashing or a pity party - the kind I mentioned in that other thread.

Sensible points were made, but we're speaking in absolutes now. So, well, no.

Meanwhile do you really have time to continue on like this? Shouldn't you be leveling BRD for Savage? Don't hold your team back now. . .

[Alistaire]

So it's absolutely impossible? Like absolutely, guaranteed can't be done? Tell your MCH to go level BRD, doesn't matter if they're good at it or not, just level it and play it cause "utility" will get you the clear. Right?

Okay, give that all logical discussion has degenerated into this. . . nah, just okay.

Better make sure you level everything else and become proficient at it. Never know when the meta's gonna tell you what to play.

Quit strawmanning OK? It doesn't help. It's not a matter of whether things are possible vs impossible, and nobody other than you is claiming that it is. It's better to do any particular fight with jobs that do better (go figure huh?) and the better the jobs are, the faster you clear fights and/or have more leeway to do less than perfect. And the discrepancy is too much, especially when we have an update that was supposed to make a bad job better and ended up making it worse.

[Fannah]

ThirdChild_ZKI is indeed not the only one saying to people to stop follow blindly meta, that being optimized is not mandatory, especially in a time when the content in easy enough and still can be cleared by any person who plays well his/her role. Elnidfse also said Machinists are enough to clear current content.

I admit this time ThirdChild_ZKI is strawmanning as Elnidfse always said he was still playing MCH whatever happens and currently do very well with machinist and just wish the job was more balanced overall to less feel behind in an unfair way even if he is able to do well.

But what is annoying and being stupid is when it leads people to think they have to get bard to succeed and they end to refuse people playing machinists for unfair reasons. Bard is better in every way (I believe except in burst), but is not close to be mandatory. And the dps difference between bard and machinist played by an equal skilled person actually won't make a run longer in a significant way. It's like if losing 30sec/1min was the end of the day, and people force others to change their class and to level up for hours and days a whole class to gain those ridiculous seconds in exchange of the fun of one of the players. Remember it's a game, and not a competitive one. Only teams like "1rst to clear" or "best record" would have a viable reason to ask someone to don't have fun by playing another more efficient class. And if machinists have a better burst, they are better to don't wipe on a dps check phase. And believe me or not, but wiping is a time loss.

I believe ThirdChild_ZKI starts to be tired of seeing people complaining when the modifications JUST have been made and you already see people claiming "it's actually a nerf" and when you dig a bit their arguments, they have none, it's just something they believe in or read/heard somewhere, they throw figures without real reflections behind. So it's like we are talking to stupid puppets just repeating what they heard like if they personnaly experienced it, and without showing even some reflection and/or common sense. And they dare to want to be taken seriously by devs. And if devs also can be wrong, they are the ones with the power to change things anyway, not us, so if you discredit yourself by looking stupid, you lower the chances to be listened.

But when you read ThirdChild_ZKI on his other posts, he is overall calm and just try to make people think by themselves and give a try to the job instead of just complaining the day itself of the changes. Then they will be able to come complain with viable data and experience.

Edit : Btw, in MMORPG, there is RPG. Let people have fun with the character they decide to role play. If they are too bad for high contents, almost like if they were trolling for you -> Kick them, but don't refuse them to even give it a try.

I tend to end believing people mean Machinists are the disrespectful ones to the others by bringing such class to their high content party. So those people can feel better like if they weren't the disrespectful ones.

[kupokage]

Meta this meta that. Bottom of the DPS charts? Meh. Playing around with it some, at most, I parsed 3800 (no food/pot) on Susan Ex SSS. I love love love that Quick Reload no longer reduces heat. Enjoying sacrificing the turret on every dungeon pull. But I hate that, like GB, I have to throw it out again manually after it's "repaired". Dunno yet if I hate or love the fact that we Cooldown less now. I know, DPS loss blah blah blah. I've hated it before for interrupting my Split-Slug-Clean for using up my ammo and taking away my guarenteed proc. Now theres less of that. Job seems more fluent after the changes somehow. I can deal with it. I only ask that Hot Shot and Wildfire get buffs.

[Elnidfse]

Meta this meta that. Bottom of the DPS charts? Meh.

Go do A2S SSS. I consider myself an above average MCH. I am 82nd. I clear that with 2-6 seconds left when food buffed. Go have fun with that. People think this is a "i don't top the charts" complaint when they have no clue what's going on in raids right now. I imagine we'll either clear or hit enrage on A2S in the next hour or so. If I hit a wall where my best performance above the norm is not effective enough with no deaths, I will shelf my MCH for raiding.

I've hated it before for interrupting my Split-Slug-Clean for using up my ammo and taking away my guaranteed proc.

On the topic of ammo, never should you have to use cooldown and use ammo. Ammo reduces heat build. You can combo without ever using ammo on a CD. And if you're good at your rotation there's never a case where you have to hold on ammo to cooldown with a wildfire coming up. MCH worked fine before for people who put the minimum amount of effort necessary to perform well. The only "fluency" is that you can now spam 1-2-3 to your heart's content without ever having to manage anything. Mind you I'm not saying that enjoying it's bad. It's not. I'm really happy for you that you enjoy MCH now. I'm simply stating that it's less intuitive now in every way that matters.

[chs724]

Meta this meta that. Bottom of the DPS charts? Meh. Playing around with it some, at most, I parsed 3800 (no food/pot) on Susan Ex SSS.

You totally missed the point of this thread