[Stormblood] [Dragoon Rotation] COME ON AND SLAM

[Vateriel]

Hi, how would the opener look without taking a potion? You do mention some stuff in the bottom of your post, but I am unsure how the actual rotation looks like without a potion based on that information.

[kyrios91]

Hi, how would the opener look without taking a potion? You do mention some stuff in the bottom of your post, but I am unsure how the actual rotation looks like without a potion based on that information.

(Heavy Thrust) Blood of the Dragon
(Impulse Drive) Battle Litany
(Disembowel) Dragon Sight + Blood for Blood
(Chaos Thrust) Jump
(Wheeling Thrust) Mirage Dive + Geirskogul
(Fang and Claw) Spineshatter Dive
(True Thrust) Dragonfire Dive
(Vorpal Thrust) Mirage Dive + Life Surge
(Full Thrust)
(Fang and Claw)
(Wheeling Thrust)

Basically just move 1 oGCD to the pot's spot. In this case, BOTD is the perfect candidate to pop (even pre-pull).

[Frowny]

Does the order of double-weave buffs matter or let's say can I use Blood for Blood + Dragon Sight instead of Dragon Sight + Blood for Blood?

It shouldn't matter too much I'd think, unless you're going for massive optimization. Worse case maybe 1 gcd isn't buffed under a window. The only general rules are trying to pair B4B/LS with FT and B4B with CT for the DoT buff.

[SunnyHirose]

The differences between openers are forgivable in a long run; tens of potency lost over ~30 seconds, while tragic, is swimming in a sea of several thousand in the same timeframe (not even counting autoattacks). And in a short run, you can usually try your options out. In the future I hope to put together some charts to really explore these options, but that's not even on the horizon right now.

In tonight's edit (so... much... testing...), I will be swapping Blood for Blood into an earlier slot to alleviate That Thing: holding the 5th Mirage Dive for too long. It's possible to manage, but I think just one more GCD of slack makes it far less risky, plus I'm sure most of us are chomping at the bit to actually get to LotD by that point. It will perhaps be a weaker opener on paper, but technically it's more aggressive with the stronger cooldown, so without proving it, I think it's hardly even a tradeoff; a Mirage Dive and/or a delayed LotD window is the worse loss by far.

In retrospect, I should have noticed that 60s and 80s is more than 15s difference, but on patch day I was excited by the Mirage Dive change and eager to get straight to the jumps.

[Frowny]

I'd be willing to argue our opener isn't where most of our damage is anymore. Nastrond is what we want and B4B is up by the time we hit that phase and it seems (from my experience) we have a "2nd opener" there. Hungry Eyes isn't available then granted, but it helps buff other melee who frontload more heavily.

Edit: I also glanced at your savage gear build and it seems viable, but I'm wary stacking that much crit currently given the small returns. I posted 2 a page or two back using the new info from Dervy but without further vetting I'm unsure what we should aim for. For Vit, I think that was only for 12S really as you would take unavoidable damage and, at first, it was damn near impossible to survive. It does help, but I'm not sure of any fight in 1-4s of Omega where we have similar.

[SunnyHirose]

Edit: I also glanced at your savage gear build and it seems viable, but I'm wary stacking that much crit currently given the small returns.

How about this... save your own copy of this and start plugging your desired gearsets' stats into cells B3:F3. I wish I could say I have the lowdown on damage formulas, because then it would be an okay approximation of DPS, but for now it is a Frankenstein'd mix of theory and logged damage scaled to STR. The guess at BiS is just that, a guess.

Either way, the reports of Critical Hit's demise are greatly exaggerated.

For Vit, I think that was only for 12S really as you would take unavoidable damage and, at first, it was damn near impossible to survive. It does help, but I'm not sure of any fight in 1-4s of Omega where we have similar.

As I hint in that section, it's a looooong history... buckle up

Last week, Angered used at least some VIT melds for their clear of savage Deltascape; they even talked about the merits of surviving longer--you won't see VIT melds discussed much in that thread; it's practically a given at this point, so it's not really apropos (they do mention Tenacity because it's new, and it's a bit analogous for tanks, really). Elysium also melded VIT this tier. To the best of my knowledge, VIT melds played a crucial role in almost every high-difficulty raid clear or progression towards it in this game, especially notable in Lucrezia's clears of SCoB savage and FCoB (Collision also did it, an obvious sign in early FCoB clears is monks having ~6000HP). The biggest exception may be savage Manipulator, and even then one could argue the accessory-melding situation for Gordias (60 iLvls below the drops, G5 melds straight up impossible) has never been seen before or since.

(Lucrezia also did a VIT melded i55 T5 and a no-meld T7 savage for kicks, though. They also had healers with tank accs for this Ravana, which was extremely fast pre-Gordias.)

Other MMORPGs have also seen progression raiders stacking HP to their benefit. It is also apparent in single-player RPGs with parallels to FFXIV raiding, such as FFXIII's adamantoise farming.

I truly believe that some of the highest skilled players in the world benefit from leeway when facing severe punishment for the slightest of errors with no strategy guide whatsoever to consult if something goes wrong. That is, I strongly disagree with the notion that they're doing this strictly to survive HP checks, or you wouldn't see the first-boss victory screenshots with inflated HP; it also has other benefits in terms of healer triage and "standing in the fire". Naturally, at times when my belief is the more useful alternative, it follows that what people who are less skilled need is more leeway, not 1.2-1.3% more DPS. At least till they've seen the enrage on the roughest DPS check available, anyway.

In terms of Fermi-esque fuzzy napkin math:
- VIT melds have a roughly double digit chance of being tested on any given pull in progression. 10% at lowest, let's say; most people make mistakes with crucial mechanics more often than one in ten pulls, so we'll up that to 15%. For a bad goon, we can guess about 2/3 of those will still be fatal. But it's still a payoff on 5% of pulls. So between 4 DPS, going from 85%^4 = 52.2% "problem free" attempts to 90%^4 = 65.6% is pretty massive actually.
- Generously round up the benefit of a full DPS meld on accessories to 2% (it's less than that). If we didn't know about the checks, we could estimate its benefit at ~2% of the time. Okay, but that's not really fair. If this is the entire wiggle room on an important DPS check, it will pay off nearly every time it's tried. However, think about how often it really comes down to that. It's not 0%, but it's close, and you can tell when it's coming, too. The obvious one is an enrage. So, you need to be wondering whether buying a ~2% sooner clear is worth it, and that has to be purchased within the raid's uptime, too, not the raid's actual timer. With 10min. uptime and no problem errors from anybody, you're getting yourself about 12 "extra" seconds, assuming you are perfect. How often is success hinging on ~12-15 seconds of pure damage?
- Mess with the numbers until you're satisfied, but I think with reasonable guesses, you generally find these two are not in the same ballpark, at least until you're hitting a very different level with regards to what mechanics can be ignored. Usually that level is "farm", usually the tuning is such that the raid drops themselves get you there. This is the reasoning behind my recommendation.

Full G6 VIT melds are a little weak off the bat (+7.5% HP on DRG, compare to FCoB where you could get that from overmelding VIT on just two or three accessories IIRC), and how much extra HP they contribute will stay at 125 VIT, so as a percentage of unmelded HP it will only decrease as the expansion continues. Let's cross that bridge when we get there, though.

Most people will probably never benefit from more VIT in Expert roulette or raids that are on farm, it's true. In raid progression or PUGs for anything with a chance of wiping, I think VIT is the better compromise by a long shot.

edit: Case in point. Many of those responses are from legit raiders at multiple levels of skill.

[Inuk9]

About this openner

(Heavy Thrust) strength potion**
(Impulse Drive) Blood of the Dragon + Battle Litany
(Disembowel) Dragon Sight + Blood for Blood
(Chaos Thrust) Jump
(Wheeling Thrust) Mirage Dive + Geirskogul
(Fang and Claw) Spineshatter Dive
(True Thrust) Dragonfire Dive
(Vorpal Thrust) Mirage Dive + Life Surge
(Full Thrust)
(Fang and Claw)
(Wheeling Thrust)

Why BotD Before Blood for Blood? Also, Why not BotD BEFORE starting your rotation (pre pull) since now you have more than enought time to maintain it?

[Frowny]

You want B4B for CT, 5th and a FT. Popping B4B a bit later gives that time needed.

[knotwrite]

What are some thoughts on the Creation chest vs. weapon? My static gave me the O2S tomestone this week since my damage is pretty good (if I do say so myself), but I can't say I'm all that excited about trading 263 DH for 268 skill speed. Is 16 extra strength and 1 more point of damage really going to outweigh the loss of those secondaries?

My gut tells me it'll still be a DPS increase, but all that skill speed makes me sick.

[HoLoFoNo]

Yes, since HW mainstat has always been more than 5x more effective than secondaries (with the exception of end of expansion crit). Especially with the removal of accuracy now ILVL increases are always a DPS increase. From what I have seen of the sub stat maths, all the substats are within .03 of each other anyway.