[Stormblood] [Dragoon Rotation] COME ON AND SLAM

[SunnyHirose]

Today's update is very minor, but for those of you still dependent on stat weights, it should still be more accurate than the ones I had there previously. Basically, WD is now accounted for (intercept +33), STR was adjusted (intercept -25 ish), auto-attacks are modeled (overly simplistically as 110p/3s; when they buffed DET in 4.0, it seems they made it affect weaponskills and autos equally or thereabouts), and I did a thing with abilities that kinda reflect which ones get buffed and which don't. The remaining loose end is the buff to DoTs from SS, but there isn't a reasonable reason to believe it's different from what it does to autos (the hypothesis that it roughly reflects what SS does for GCDs seems to be borne out).

If my DPS estimates end up being accurate to my satisfaction, then that calculator can go public pretty soon; otherwise, back to the lab again, eh?

[SunnyHirose]

Do we have a definite Best-in-Slot yet?
I've been clearing O1S - O3S with my static consistently and am wondering which Gear to buy next with Tomestones to contribute to a proper set later on.
On the front page of this thread I've seen the Set for Savage Gear but was still curious to know if there are alternatives or changes.

Also compared to the opener stated in this Guide the one below fits personally better for me, but I'd like to know everyone else's opinion as to what they are using.
For me at least my dps improved using the opener below instead of the one in this guide. (Or maybe I just got better and was just bad before lol.)

The original opener:
http://ffxivrotations.com/xgw

My slightly modified opener:
http://ffxivrotations.com/y9l

The opener came from this Video, I only modified it a bit to make it easier to use for myself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvkj...nnel=FFXIVMomo

I'm closing in on a BiS solution. Progress has been slow on all fronts because I'm trying to polish chapters 3 and 4 as best I can.*

One thing I can say so far is that if you like that set and are going to do it anyway, one of the G6 Savage Aims should be replaced with G6 Heaven's Eye because of tiering.

On recent opener discussions: I stand by the long-running assertion that which opener you use is not earth-shatteringly important, it is more important that the job gets done than how you do it. I think it's important to avoid getting too caught up in that kind of bikeshedding. I mean, I've had a time--this was in ARR--where I would mathematically prove an opener categorically superior for someone and then several times over the next few months I'd see the same guy spread the misinformation I directly debunked. Why even bother, right?

But taking things personally aside (), I haven't seen a single convincing reason to change the one in the OP after moving BfB despite some... unsubstantiated criticisms... I've seen elsewhere in the past two weeks. In that YT comment, Momo raises points about raid buffs, which I don't knock (raid damage buffs can change minor facts that don't hold solo, sure), but at the same time contains misstatements about other effects which I suspect stems from some overly broad assumptions--I don't wish to confront that, btw, I want to clarify it with good theory when Ch3/4 are ready. Apparently I may need to add some clarifications about cooldowns in the meantime, but a rewrite of Ch1 (which I hope comes eventually) is not the highest-priority item on my plate.

More to the point: a lot of this business about putting Spineshatter after Dragonfire seems to me a solution to a non-problem. I admit I am splitting hairs by my own standards, but there is potential loss and no real gain here unless Dragonfire that much sooner presents a gap-closing opportunity. Now, some of it was borne of using a different BfB timing, but I don't see people doing much of that anymore.

Anyhow if I'm gonna say BiS has low SS,** then I can't go around recommending an opener that could be potentially really bad at low SS. That would be unconscionable! But basically, I shouldn't be saying "y'all should hold a cooldown" unless you really have to.*** Low uptime is prima facie not a good approach to DPS; anything leading to that is specifically the attitude I would like to not cultivate.

When you kinda-sorta know what you are doing, that is the time to start fancier tricks, no sooner. No later, either, mind you.

Oh, there is one important reason I won't change it to a Spineshatter Dive-first opener unless job adjustments change things, and it is very subtle: about a 1/3 chance of substantial loss of potency at certain inconvenient timestamps is the obvious risk that people have made their peace with, but I do anticipate a cyclical 30 potency / 240s difference due to one extra Mirage Dive under BfB.

* In part, I realized I couldn't really live with it if I didn't have a reasonably complete test of character lock timings.

** Unlike many "experts" past and present I have never considered high SS a requirement and still don't.

*** I'm not saying it's never beneficial, but even when people talk about getting a 20s buff over 9 GCDs they never seem to consider more than the GCDs themselves. Autos, other players' damage, what stats you have to give up for SS, and the sync of the oGCD cycle are possible sacrifices.

[TheKingSlayer]

From my experience is that openers change slightly with each fight in savage. Some times its Jump first, sometimes its SSD first. It all depends on the fight, when the boss goes invulnerable, what aoes are used when.
i.e. in Neo I like using jump first, since you can get a 2nd jump in before neo goes into his first alpha cross. However in O3S, I like SSD first because if you use jump first may have to hold your 2nd jump as she's doing her first spellblade holy, so you don't get animation locked in a potential blizzard aoe.

TLDR; Basically, everyone is right. Sunny's opener is great, but tweaking may be appropriate depending on fight.

[HoLoFoNo]

Snip

I find that jumping first is more useful in every fight apart from o1s. For o2s it is far less risky when your 2nd jump comes up. If you use jump first then your 2nd jump comes up like 6 seconds before the antilights go off, plenty of time to move into the middle. On the other hand if you use it 2nd, you will be cutting it extremely close and if the boss isn't actually in the middle, Jump will attempt to place you on its outer hitbox which WILL place you into the antilight guaranteeing your death (this has literally killed me on o2s and on o3s 'the game' when the boss is outside the dps panels, half a second of animation lock that puts you in the wrong place will fuck you).

In o3s if you use jump first, it will be used before the spellblade magic cast bar finishes, meaning you don't have to pussy foot around and have no chance of eating blizzard or thunder.

In exfaust blizzard 3 aoe comes the exact same time you use your 2nd jump after the 1st mirage dive, and if its jump you will die (this depends on how early you hit the boss, if you effectively pulled with HT this is less of a problem) but if it is spine shatter it will be close. In this case it doesn't actually matter as you wont get to the 60 second threshold anyway so if you wanna hold them for longer, its fine but it wont line up with raid buffs.

And as you said in NEO, jumping first makes it far less precarious to do it during the white screen of GC alpha (it is also important to note if you use GSK before chaos thrust if you don't have a pot or something, you can get one off comfortably before GC alpha, and instead of doing it late during the line up or skipping it completely to line up with the next trick if you have a NIN, you get it back the same time you would have used it if you held it).

[TheKingSlayer]

In o3s if you use jump first, it will be used before the spellblade magic cast bar finishes, meaning you don't have to pussy foot around and have no chance of eating blizzard or thunder.

Very true, but if you are the one who gets tethered and stunned in the mechanic before you will die to a blizzard with jump

[HoLoFoNo]

Very true, but if you are the one who gets tethered and stunned in the mechanic before you will die to a blizzard with jump

That.... shouldn't be the case. oGCD timings aren't effected so you will still jump at the same time, just after a different global cooldown.

[HoLoFoNo]

I dislike people taking Momos word for gospel. Yes his results are good but don't forget most of the disparity of 'skill' in this game can be attributed to circumstance (i.e gear and team comp along with specific cards). Momo has always raided with a very good comp for DRG and also runs fights very often to get speedkills. He also had the 345 spear from week 1 and is also +330.

[HoLoFoNo]

Nah

Nah, it was completely in general. A lot of the talk in the balance discord and forums is based around following Momo. If it were just you I would have quoted you in and replied directly to what exactly I disagree with. You bringing it up and Sunny replying making it the relevant topic is why I decided to comment on it.

When it comes to DPS improvements, unless your opener was absolutely abysmal you most likely will not see a difference. Yeah, the GCD line up and shit is important but honestly 1 single 'extra' crit can negate the potential potency difference or potential DPS increase from the line up etc.

[LiquidSwordz]

Most of the gear seems pretty straight forward as to what's BiS. We have a lot of crit/direct hit pieces out there. I've seen the savage pants over the lost allagan ones which baffle me unless the SS is a must. I'm using the omega chest till I beat OS4(currently on Neo). Left side tome piece for me are the head and legs, right side are choke, bracelet and ring

[VasilissaXylonez]

Most of the gear seems pretty straight forward as to what's BiS. We have a lot of crit/direct hit pieces out there. I've seen the savage pants over the lost allagan ones which baffle me unless the SS is a must. I'm using the omega chest till I beat OS4(currently on Neo). Left side tome piece for me are the head and legs, right side are choke, bracelet and ring

Your comment is what baffles me. As bad as SS is, it's still an upgrade from the i310 or i320 crafted pants, so if you get lucky and have it dropped from o3s, then you should definitely use it and spend your creation tomes on other i310/i320 pieces.