Developers Poor Attitude to Summoner

[Ayer2015]

Current balance issues aside.... I like the direction SMN is going. Frankly I would prefer if multiple summons worked like Demi Bahamut..... short term in combat summons.

[Jybril]

Well, some people didn't want it to be a DoT Job, there are some that liked it as a DoT job (who complained that we get only 2 DoTs now), then some that wanted it to focus more on pets, and then there's another side where they want it to be like classic FF summoning, big and flashy summons and attacks, almost like Demi-Bahamut (pretty much asking for a burst DPS).

They can't really please everybody if the community is so divided about Summoner's identity. I think Summoner now is a step in the right direction though, but executed poorly.

Make it a DoT job with summons like Demi B.
There, you still got your dots, and we get better "Egi's" by summoning the Primals one at a time.
I still think the entire job needs to be redone. It is fine they are stepping in the right direction with that
but they need to look before Demi B and fix the other messed they got going. They completely ignored
the Egi's and gave us no new pet skills minus Demi B. There ARE still jarring problems SE!!

[Dyvid]

Well, some people didn't want it to be a DoT Job, there are some that liked it as a DoT job (who complained that we get only 2 DoTs now), then some that wanted it to focus more on pets, and then there's another side where they want it to be like classic FF summoning, big and flashy summons and attacks, almost like Demi-Bahamut (pretty much asking for a burst DPS).

They can't really please everybody if the community is so divided about Summoner's identity. I think Summoner now is a step in the right direction though, but executed poorly.

They tried though. Look at SMN pre 4.0:
Player solely used Garuda for Contagion; which extended DoTs. This let player focus less on DoT management and opened the window to spam ruin more. SE's Response: Remove one DoT and extend duration to 30s each and add a proc ruin spell; less DoT management and more ruin spam.
Players wanted a big bad primal pet: SE adds DB and the community is upset because it's too big and blocks view.
Players wanted Egi's to be more like other FF and do more like buff/debuff: SE add buffs and debuff in which the community responds with anger because Buff/Debuff meant lower dps numbers.

I'm sorry but the community got exactly what they asked for and are pissed because of it.

[Talec]

SMN is by far not such a big mess like some in here try to draw it. I see only three main Problems, which I think, should be adresses with 4.1

1) SMN needs a Little DPS Gain (best served with a decrease of Aetherflow cooldown, that would give the class also a more fluid phase-rotation).

2) Make Aetherpact a grp-wide buff. or at least let us controll it better who gets the buff. This is by far the worst decision SE made in this whole Addon. What Comes in mind to create a skill that useless? on such a high lvl?

3) And please kill that Tri-Bind skill and give us back Sustain! I haven't seen anybody using Tri-Bind in 4 years. And there SE came and told us, that gameplay Change was to remove unnecessary skills...and they took us Sustain???

[Semmi]

They tried though. Look at SMN pre 4.0:
Player solely used Garuda for Contagion; which extended DoTs. This let player focus less on DoT management and opened the window to spam ruin more. SE's Response: Remove one DoT and extend duration to 30s each and add a proc ruin spell; less DoT management and more ruin spam.
Players wanted a big bad primal pet: SE adds DB and the community is upset because it's too big and blocks view.
Players wanted Egi's to be more like other FF and do more like buff/debuff: SE add buffs and debuff in which the community responds with anger because Buff/Debuff meant lower dps numbers.

I'm sorry but the community got exactly what they asked for and are pissed because of it.

I'm upset because I thought HW SMN was near perfect, and they decided to go and change it up enough that it no longer feels fun to play, with core mechanical problems that aren't going to be solved until next expansion at the very least.

[Soge01]

Wouldn't it have been better to replace our dot spells with egi based ones where we command them to do it for us through our regular hot bar, thus giving us more incentive to pay attention to our egi, along with keeping sustain in the game?

That and replacing/adding other skills where we could summon a split second egi to perform a single or mulitple set of skills like many people have suggested before. Wouldn't that have made summoner feel more like what it's name implies?

I've only started getting into summoner today, so I still don't know all the details of what exactly is wrong with the class besides dimished power and missing sustain, so please don't bite my head off if my question/example is missing something or no good.

[Kallera]

Snip.

Game developers are not paid to be disgruntled genies.

The SMN was far and away unlike other summoners in games, but at least it did its trinity role to satisfaction, when it doesn't even do that, the veneer comes off entirely and you just have a busted class. Why is Ruin and DoTs such integral spells for the class? Why is summoning and pet management getting shafted? When it has such a weak identity to begin with, and poor performance added on, it just isn't Summoner anymore.

[Duelle]

Why is Ruin and DoTs such integral spells for the class?

To be fair, SMNs in non-job system FFs have a second school of magic to fall back on. Rydia had black magic. Eiko, Garnet and Yuna had white magic. The latter wouldn't fly unless you want to make the job a semi hybrid like RDM is.

Why is summoning and pet management getting shafted?

This was failure on part of the devs. They backed out of giving SMN Leviathan-egi and Ramuh-egi (despite showing us previews of those egi) under the excuse of overlap (even though that's bullocks seeing that there were avenues of utility available if we use the WoW warlock as a blueprint, which the devs had already used when building the ARR SMN).

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Here's something random I came up with for SMN:

Carby + Primal skills + Bahamut: Basically, keep Carby as the permanent pet. Change all Aetherflow skills to become primal-related abilities. Energy Drain becomes Gyre Spume (Leviathan), dealing damage for a set duration and restoring some MP. Shadow Flare becomes Razed Earth (Titan). Bane becomes Shock Strike (Ramuh). Fester becomes Flaming Crush (Ifrit). Add a frontal-cone stun called Slipstream (Garuda). Using primal abilities grants you Aethertrail Attunement, which instead of being units like now, would be a bar that fills up.

You get a second tier of primals that can be temp-summoned, consuming a notable chunk of the bar. This is where you'd have Demi-Ravana (reduces target's resistance to damage), Demi-Bismarck (lingering AoE damage), and Demi-Laskhmi (AoE heal or damage shield/Vril).

You can also summon Demi-Bahamut with a full bar.

[Nirokun]

Here's something random I came up with for SMN:

Carby + Primal skills + Bahamut: Basically, keep Carby as the permanent pet. Change all Aetherflow skills to become primal-related abilities.

Yes please. Carbuncle as your Summoner-buddy is the dream. I also wanted him to provide a manaward/wall effect so we could have one defensive buff in the flavor of good ol' Ruby Light's Reflect. Something to give him his old flavor.

[jazo]

One would think they learned their mistakes on FFXI summoner, as an once main SMN on XI, I know the feel of devs not giving your job the attention it deserves.

FFXI SMN was a stressfull job with pikes in usefulness every ONE minute, and a MP management hell that made you look for even 1 more mp refresh per tick like it was water in the dessert.
Devs eventually gave you a skill to up the DD of summons, at the expense of more MP, or a party buff at the expense of damage (oh the memories of being the refresh diabolos balloon holder for the BLM party at Dynamis, seeing how everyone but you have fun)



They promised more avatars, everyone hyped, but then they turned out to be a 2hr skill... (later reduced to 1h but still) where they just appear, do their thing and went away, it was... not what SMNs expected when they promissed us more avatars (the ones we had followed you like egis), I stoped playing before the last expansion so I dunno if they (after more then 8 years) fixed the job.

I havent played SMN 3.0 or 4.0 but seeing the complains I think your SMN has an identity crisis, and devs must be afraid to cut some stuff and focus on other without turning SMN into a copy of other jobs. They should have focused on the pets, ditch basically everythin else and making SMN skills to aid the pets. Make it the master of area control and ranged positionals, skills to control pet movement more easily (instant teleport to one side, instant teleport to marker, AoE pet shields etc) make a SMN devoted to said Summons, and give the player survivability skills cuz they are gonna keep running, shorter cast times s it will be only commands to the pet and a sacrifice pet mechanic to instant raise and give a buff to the person raised (depending on the pet), or sacrifice pet to give group wide buffs so yu can time it when your pet is almost dying or something.