Developers Poor Attitude to Summoner

[Len]

Exhibit A:

One example of this was the Summoner. That was highly demanded, but once it was in, there were more and more requests. "You should be able to summon all the Summons and Eidolons!" That can push a person to think, "Oh, I shouldn't have included a Summoner in there." - LINK

The developers failed to meet even the lowest expectations with what they conceived of Summoner since its inception. That was your own failure, not the playerbase for rightfully expecting a better delivery. (Don't take this as me saying that having a pantheon of full-sized Summons is a reasonable request. It's not.)

The intent of this thread was to highlight the fact that often the concerns of Summoners are often met with apathy, or left entirely unaddressed. Here we are in Stormblood with a mighty stack of issues piled high and the only thing that's been relayed to us so far is that they're working to resolve Demi-Bahamut causing visibility issues.

It just doesn't bode well for Summoner that the director of this game, who has enough pull with the battle system designers to keep esuna in the game, approaches Summoner with a sense of disdain.

[Len]

Exhibit B:

"Next question. Red Mage heals scale off INT. Can Summoner heals also scale off INT instead of MND?"
"Huh?"
"You're talking about Summoner, yeah?"
"Yes, Summoner."
"Red Mage. Born from both white magic and black magic..."
"Yes, we know."
"Summoner..."
(audience laughs)
"I'm sorry, I'm not sure what you're talking about."
"Yes, that's exactly what we're talking about."
"Yeah, I understand the argument. With Dual Cast and the kind of healing they can do. When both healers are down and the Red Mage waltz in and saves the day. But, listen, Summoner players, listen okay? Red Mage can raise, okay? And Black Mage, nothing, okay? That's why we have jobs, okay?"
"Okay, yes."
"So go play a Red Mage (if you want to do what Red Mages do)."
- LINK

Naoki Yoshida's comments on SMN from the last Live Letter.

[vio_p]

Exhibit B:


Naoki Yoshida's comments on SMN from the last Live Letter.

that was a rough mock of what was actually said. you should watch the live letter instead of taking what others write as fact.

[AbelArchaniEA]

Very telling

[Magic-Mal]

.

Maybe Yoshida is tired of Summoner players, like you?

Don't like it? Play RDM : )
Looked pretty clear to me. Nothing will ever satisfy you people anyway.

[Teryaani]

Maybe Yoshida is tired of Summoner players, like you?

Don't like it? Play RDM : )
Looked pretty clear to me. Nothing will ever satisfy you people anyway.

You could argue the same lame point about every other time people complained about class changes (how about that cast time for bards? amirite?) . The root of the summoner's problem is that it's tied weirdly to arcanist rather than being it's own class. It's always been an oddball and isn't a really great design. The heal thing is a side effect of that and taking away sustain was a mistake. If the class was better designed we wouldn't have a raise or a basic heal, we'd have a pet raise and a pet heal and a stack of eidolon focused abilities.

[Magic-Mal]

You could argue the same lame point about every other time people complained about class changes (how about that cast time for bards? amirite?) . The root of the summoner's problem is that it's tied weirdly to arcanist rather than being it's own class. It's always been an oddball and isn't a really great design. The heal thing is a side effect of that and taking away sustain was a mistake. If the class was better designed we wouldn't have a raise or a basic heal, we'd have a pet raise and a pet heal and a stack of eidolon focused abilities.

When SE changes something they change it based on player numbers and forum responses. When 3.0 BRD was released it got an insane amount of hate, hug not only that, it got a huge drop in people playing the job. Yoshida explained this as one of the reasons pushing him to finally change it after 2 years.

The problem with SMN is that despite the amount of people who dislike SMN right now(a small amount) SMN still remained the most popular job in the game just a few months past based off of the spring census. So numbers aren't on your side. Plus the changes people want require a full overhaul from the ground up. Why overhaul the most popular job because a select few don't like it?

[Teryaani]

When SE changes something they change it based on player numbers and forum responses. When 3.0 BRD was released it got an insane amount of hate, hug not only that, it got a huge drop in people playing the job. Yoshida explained this as one of the reasons pushing him to finally change it after 2 years.

The problem with SMN is that despite the amount of people who dislike SMN right now(a small amount) SMN still remained the most popular job in the game just a few months past based off of the spring census. So numbers aren't on your side. Plus the changes people want require a full overhaul from the ground up. Why overhaul the most popular job because a select few don't like it?

You're assuming that's not what's in SMN's future, especially when SE has introduced an alternative that has better utility and the same or better dps numbers with less effort. I'm not buying your argument about it being the most popular job. It was a forgotten child during much of ARR. It only spiked in popularity during HW thanks it having strong damage output and utility (when compared to existing alternatives). Both of those factors are gone.

You overhaul it because it creates a balance issue because the base class is linked to another class. The duct tape and bailing wire approach to game balance is ultimately going to keep causing square problems. That's why you overhaul it.

[Tsumdere]

-snip-

It used to be one of the most popular DPS class BEFORE SB. Since these changes, I've noticed a remarkable decline in SMNs. For example, I haven't seen one single SMN for weeks in anything except for one I saw today doing maps. None in farms, none in roulettes... Every former SMN I know (including myself) has left the job and warned others not to touch it.

It's not popular now. It's one of the least popular. Probably would be the least popular if MCH wasn't a thing.

[Jybril]

Maybe Yoshida is tired of Summoner players, like you?

Don't like it? Play RDM : )
Looked pretty clear to me. Nothing will ever satisfy you people anyway.

That's not fair though and saying that doesn't solve anything.
If people switch to all one job because of reasons of SMN, something is terribly wrong.
Summoner and SCH should just be their own Jobs.
I believe Yoshida mentioned that the class tie in was a huge mistake and we are still paying for it.
I also think this is why he just threw away with it now.
It's hard to fool around with it without messing with SCH base/action spells.

Rework/Overhaul? Sure, maybe.
This would take a while to do, but for the most part, giving back Sustain would make a lot of Summoners happy for now.
Can't keep pets alive anymore. That's a HUGE problem.