Developers Poor Attitude to Summoner

[Beckett]

The thing I don't get about Phsyick/Vercure is; If Summoners aren't meant to heal, why do they have Physick? It feels like another hold out from the split with Scholar, which they've clearly been working on lately (with actions such as removing the bonus stats). If Summoners are supposed to be their own job, without ties to Scholar such as minor healing utility, then Physick should just be removed from the job (and preferably replaced with some extra DPS or utility). If Summoners are supposed to have healing utility, why should the be objectively shit at it, when compared to Red Mage?

[Sandpark]

The thing I don't get about Phsyick/Vercure is; If Summoners aren't meant to heal, why do they have Physick? It feels like another hold out from the split with Scholar, which they've clearly been working on lately (with actions such as removing the bonus stats). If Summoners are supposed to be their own job, without ties to Scholar such as minor healing utility, then Physick should just be removed from the job (and preferably replaced with some extra DPS or utility). If Summoners are supposed to have healing utility, why should the be objectively shit at it, when compared to Red Mage?

They should never have had physick. I remember playing SMN in XI and usually in standard leveling parties, SMN would heal just because they had heal, especially at lower levels. Rdm was relegated to cure and haste ho.

I would prefer I have no cure whatsoever, so any buttons I need to press are reserved for controlling my pet. Which is what an FF fan really want to do when they play a summon job. If anything the pet should be healing me and should have an auto sustain so I don't have to cast heals.

If the class thing was gonna be permanent, summoner should have branched from it's own class called Evoker in my opinion.

I bet SE kind of regrets making summoner pets with different roles in a game with strict roles and no cross play between roles.

[ResiakTtam]

The thing I don't get about Phsyick/Vercure is; If Summoners aren't meant to heal, why do they have Physick? It feels like another hold out from the split with Scholar, which they've clearly been working on lately (with actions such as removing the bonus stats). If Summoners are supposed to be their own job, without ties to Scholar such as minor healing utility, then Physick should just be removed from the job (and preferably replaced with some extra DPS or utility). If Summoners are supposed to have healing utility, why should the be objectively shit at it, when compared to Red Mage?

Thats the problem. Physick is stuck with us because of sch. If you make physick a job ability, what happens when a sch does leveling roulette and goes under lvl 30. That would kind of be tough if your healer doesn't have a heal. So they have to leave it as an archanist ability, which means it's stuck with us summoners.

[Uzephi]

Thats the problem. Physick is stuck with us because of sch. If you make physick a job ability, what happens when a sch does leveling roulette and goes under lvl 30. That would kind of be tough if your healer doesn't have a heal. So they have to leave it as an archanist ability, which means it's stuck with us summoners.

Idea: just make it so level 30 summoner turns physick to sustain, problem solved

[Claviusnex]

Thats the problem. Physick is stuck with us because of sch. If you make physick a job ability, what happens when a sch does leveling roulette and goes under lvl 30. That would kind of be tough if your healer doesn't have a heal. So they have to leave it as an archanist ability, which means it's stuck with us summoners.

That shouldn't be an issue. All SE has to do is at level 30 replace Physick with Sustain for Summoners. When we enter a lower level dungeon set it back to Physick. They already do this up/down with Bio and Miasma not to mention they've given SCH Miasma II but not Summoners. The fact is they aren't as tightly coupled as SE makes out and they've already set the precedence of having the two being different.

[Kallera]

SE regrets it because SE has been trying to pidgeonhole Summoner into a WOW class since day one, when it is supposed to be able to perform different utilities to some degree. They shouldn't need to throw its support abilities under the bus to make RDM look good, just give it different support skills, or expand the pet abilities. They do still have pets, right?

[Teryaani]

SE regrets it because SE has been trying to pidgeonhole Summoner into a WOW class since day one, when it is supposed to be able to perform different utilities to some degree. They shouldn't need to throw its support abilities under the bus to make RDM look good, just give it different support skills, or expand the pet abilities. They do still have pets, right?

Yeah, making the summoner an affliction warlock was an odd choice. The big party piece for it probably should have been the pet control and variety.

[Duelle]

SE regrets it because SE has been trying to pidgeonhole Summoner into a WOW class since day one, when it is supposed to be able to perform different utilities to some degree.

If SMN had even half of the things it could do in other FF games, the cries to nerf the job would reach the heavens and echo across the world. AoE Stoneskin, Aoe Blink, AoE stat increase to the full party, AoE heals, party invincibility, and one-hit kills, to name a few. The complaints about RDM would look like a drop of water on a hot anvil by comparison.

Yeah, making the summoner an affliction warlock was an odd choice. The big party piece for it probably should have been the pet control and variety.

Started as affliction, then tried to make them Demo locks with DWT (back when demo had Metamorphosis).

The problem with summon variety is that you have a high risk of overlap unless you design each egi for one specific purpose. And even then you start running out of room fast. FFXI's SMN ran into this problem, leading to more convoluted ways to use summons over time. And some summons are just stupid-powerful in-world, which makes it a balancing nightmare. For example, Alexander with Perfect Defense = AoE Hallowed Ground to a full party; imagine the shitshow that would create if our SMN could do that. Or if Titan-egi could Stoneskin a full party at the cost of an Aetherflow stack.

My beef with SMN is that design-wise it's all over the place. 1-50 was "DoT mage with a pet", then 51-60 was "fuck that pet, trances a go-go", and 62-70 it seems to have gone full retarddragon mage or "we've replaced the egi with a mini-bahamut; let's see if he notices". There's other issues like unresponsive/inefficient pet AI, lack of connection between master and pet, and how the role primals play in the game has changed.

[Kallera]

If SMN had even half of the things it could do in other FF games, the cries to nerf the job would reach the heavens and echo across the world. AoE Stoneskin, Aoe Blink, AoE stat increase to the full party, AoE heals, party invincibility, and one-hit kills, to name a few. The complaints about RDM would look like a drop of water on a hot anvil by comparison.

You could say the same of plenty of other classes. But SMN is now not even comparable in its own role now. now it's just a job that doesn't play right and doesn't feel like a summoner...

[Teryaani]

The problem with summon variety is that you have a high risk of overlap unless you design each egi for one specific purpose. And even then you start running out of room fast. FFXI's SMN ran into this problem, leading to more convoluted ways to use summons over time. And some summons are just stupid-powerful in-world, which makes it a balancing nightmare. For example, Alexander with Perfect Defense = AoE Hallowed Ground to a full party; imagine the shitshow that would create if our SMN could do that. Or if Titan-egi could Stoneskin a full party at the cost of an Aetherflow stack.

I'm fine with them having an rdps pet, mdps pet, tank pet and minor spiffs for each. Maybe more pet buffs, swap raise for a revive egi, trait to swap physick for a pet heal. I certainly don't want to see SMN going through the "OP! NERF!" "OMG DELETE SMN!" cycle again and it would be nice for the class to have it's own niche.

I wish they had angled more toward BM hunter than Aff Lock in terms of role design (with the egi being the primary damage in the equation). I am almost definitely in the minority with that opinion, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

My beef with SMN is that design-wise it's all over the place. 1-50 was "DoT mage with a pet", then 51-60 was "fuck that pet, trances a go-go", and 62-70 it seems to have gone full retarddragon mage or "we've replaced the egi with a mini-bahamut; let's see if he notices". There's other issues like unresponsive/inefficient pet AI, lack of connection between master and pet, and how the role primals play in the game has changed.

Totally agree. It's a bizarre mix of things and the pet AI is something special for sure.