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  1. #1
    Quote Originally Posted by Dyvid View Post
    Okay, then explain to the community why everyone in 3.0 used Garuda over Ifrit? Their DPS was the same so what made Garuda more prized?
    how did Ifrit match a Raging Strikes + Dreadwyrm Trance + Tri-disaster Bane on trash pulls?

    and you can prefer less DoTs and less Ruin. would much rather see lower potencies and more frequent Aetherflow stacks.

    it's also possible to have more detailed egis without them being bigger.
    (2)

  2. #2
    Player
    Angry_Evil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    129
    Character
    Angry Evil
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Dyvid View Post
    Okay, then explain to the community why everyone in 3.0 used Garuda over Ifrit? Their DPS was the same so what made Garuda more prized?
    Contagion extended RS DWT dots = DPS increase. Obviously. Also no, ifrit has more DPS actually. I used mostly ifrit through whole 3.2+ btw lol. And was doing fine and usually better than any other smn with garuda.
    Are you really arguing that community finding a certain way to play a job SE designed = community feedback about wanting more ruin and less DoTs? That's insane... People just did what gave them most DPS, that's all....
    Quote Originally Posted by Dyvid View Post
    You must not have been reading the DPS boards then because it's been a complaint since SMN came out.
    It is no excuse for poor implementation of bahamut. Option to change size should've been there on release. I don't see how you can blame summoners for that. Wanting bigger\better looking summons doesn't mean people wanted unreasonable things. Actually it's very reasonable. On the other hand poor implementation and proceeding handling of that WAS unreasonable. Poor communication and whatnot
    Quote Originally Posted by Dyvid View Post
    There are but it's drowned out by complaints about SMN damage and design. Actually feedback is being lost in the crowd.
    You can't prove that anything is being lost in the crowd. And complains about SMN 4.0 design and damage are just as viable as anything else. When "complains about complains" are not viable at all.
    (4)
    Last edited by Angry_Evil; 07-21-2017 at 04:19 AM.

  3. #3
    Player
    Angry_Evil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    129
    Character
    Angry Evil
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Dyvid View Post
    Oh there is definitely reason for legit complaints, as long as legitimate. Right now based on parser and flogs SMN is the lost dps caster but doesn't account for buffs/debuffs as smn damage and is ignored by those sources. People are using Garuda because the magic debuff gives them a visible damage increase, it's something tangible were as things like Radiant Shields and Devotion make it harder to tell if the damage decrease is worth the buffs.
    What? Many people who complain do account buffs\debuffs. And they actually account much more - difficulty of the job, existence of other easier jobs that bring both more utility and DPS(u know the one) etc.
    I used ifrit in physical party compositions at first but then stopped cause it was pretty pointless. Average player probably won't even notice difference between garuda and ifrit at all...
    PS
    By the way... Now we're skipping 1st DWT to maximize our DPS through using aetherflow stacks with bahamut... what FEEDBACK does it send to SE? That they should delete DWT? It's a DPS loss after all. Or mb that they should delete summoners altogether? lol
    Community decided that they don't need DWT boyz...
    (2)
    Last edited by Angry_Evil; 07-21-2017 at 04:39 AM.

  4. #4
    Player
    Alberel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    1,852
    Character
    Alberel Lindurst
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Dyvid View Post
    Oh there is definitely reason for legit complaints, as long as legitimate. Right now based on parser and flogs SMN is the lost dps caster but doesn't account for buffs/debuffs as smn damage and is ignored by those sources. People are using Garuda because the magic debuff gives them a visible damage increase, it's something tangible were as things like Radiant Shields and Devotion make it harder to tell if the damage decrease is worth the buffs.
    And you get to decide what is and isn't a legitimate complaint I take it?

    Sorry but no, this is wrong. People have already calculated the damage that Radiant Shield and Devotion put out. For one it's already been ascertained that Devotion is usually a waste of a GCD for your pet as they skip an auto-attack to use it and the damage they lose from that is often more than the damage a DPS would gain from that 5% increase, especially given how little control we have over who gets the buff. Radiant Shield is only worthwhile in situations with lots of adds and a physical heavy group composition. That pretty much means it's only useful for trash pulls which are largely irrelevant to balance discussion.

    You're trying to pretend that SMN isn't as bad as it seems. I really don't understand why.
    (5)

  5. #5
    Player
    Ayer2015's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    1,451
    Character
    Ayer Austen
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 90
    Current balance issues aside.... I like the direction SMN is going. Frankly I would prefer if multiple summons worked like Demi Bahamut..... short term in combat summons.
    (4)

  6. #6
    Player
    Talec's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    322
    Character
    Violet Drakarys
    World
    Twintania
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 80
    SMN is by far not such a big mess like some in here try to draw it. I see only three main Problems, which I think, should be adresses with 4.1

    1) SMN needs a Little DPS Gain (best served with a decrease of Aetherflow cooldown, that would give the class also a more fluid phase-rotation).

    2) Make Aetherpact a grp-wide buff. or at least let us controll it better who gets the buff. This is by far the worst decision SE made in this whole Addon. What Comes in mind to create a skill that useless? on such a high lvl?

    3) And please kill that Tri-Bind skill and give us back Sustain! I haven't seen anybody using Tri-Bind in 4 years. And there SE came and told us, that gameplay Change was to remove unnecessary skills...and they took us Sustain???
    (6)
    Last edited by Talec; 07-20-2017 at 05:14 PM.

  7. #7
    Player Soge01's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    2,406
    Character
    Waira Amarilla
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 100
    Wouldn't it have been better to replace our dot spells with egi based ones where we command them to do it for us through our regular hot bar, thus giving us more incentive to pay attention to our egi, along with keeping sustain in the game?

    That and replacing/adding other skills where we could summon a split second egi to perform a single or mulitple set of skills like many people have suggested before. Wouldn't that have made summoner feel more like what it's name implies?

    I've only started getting into summoner today, so I still don't know all the details of what exactly is wrong with the class besides dimished power and missing sustain, so please don't bite my head off if my question/example is missing something or no good.
    (0)

  8. #8
    Player
    jazo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    370
    Character
    Aliane Redwyne
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 80
    One would think they learned their mistakes on FFXI summoner, as an once main SMN on XI, I know the feel of devs not giving your job the attention it deserves.

    FFXI SMN was a stressfull job with pikes in usefulness every ONE minute, and a MP management hell that made you look for even 1 more mp refresh per tick like it was water in the dessert.
    Devs eventually gave you a skill to up the DD of summons, at the expense of more MP, or a party buff at the expense of damage (oh the memories of being the refresh diabolos balloon holder for the BLM party at Dynamis, seeing how everyone but you have fun)



    They promised more avatars, everyone hyped, but then they turned out to be a 2hr skill... (later reduced to 1h but still) where they just appear, do their thing and went away, it was... not what SMNs expected when they promissed us more avatars (the ones we had followed you like egis), I stoped playing before the last expansion so I dunno if they (after more then 8 years) fixed the job.

    I havent played SMN 3.0 or 4.0 but seeing the complains I think your SMN has an identity crisis, and devs must be afraid to cut some stuff and focus on other without turning SMN into a copy of other jobs. They should have focused on the pets, ditch basically everythin else and making SMN skills to aid the pets. Make it the master of area control and ranged positionals, skills to control pet movement more easily (instant teleport to one side, instant teleport to marker, AoE pet shields etc) make a SMN devoted to said Summons, and give the player survivability skills cuz they are gonna keep running, shorter cast times s it will be only commands to the pet and a sacrifice pet mechanic to instant raise and give a buff to the person raised (depending on the pet), or sacrifice pet to give group wide buffs so yu can time it when your pet is almost dying or something.
    (2)

  9. #9
    Player
    loreleidiangelo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    1,731
    Character
    Lorelei Diangelo
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 74
    I get increasingly frustrated at the absolute refusal to divorce the job from things like DoTs, Aetherflow, and Ruin spam, wgich seem far more suited to "combat strategist SCH" than "primal channeling SMN". I don't care whether they keep the Egis and put more focus on using and empowering them, or go the Trance/Demi route where we get big impressive summons and burst abilities on cooldowns, I just want to stop using poisons and a level 1 filler ability as my primary sources of damage on a level 70 "summon"er.
    (2)

  10. #10
    Player
    Tahldon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    489
    Character
    Tahldon Boyoikoh
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 80
    There is a lot of talk about how SMN isn't like the iterations of the job that has been in other games and I think that the version of SMN that was implemented in FFXIV was its own representation that definitely worked well.

    Not that I am knowledged beyond the friends I have on my server who mained the job, but since this rework, many SMNs I know have all abandoned the job or are no longer having fun with it. I feel the devs should have stuck with the pre-4.0 version and added the Bahamut piece on top (even though he needs adjustments) and it would be all good. Instead, the job has been amended, I feel, to attempt to assuage those who felt it wasn't like what they remember before.

    Who is to say of those who were saying such things were even playing the job to begin with. But now it's been changed and the players that were maining or playing it regularly don't even enjoy it anymore and are jumping ship in droves.
    (0)

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