MCH changes are unfortunate

[The_NPC]

Personally never mastered the "New" 4.0 MCH yet so the heat change doesn't affect me as much (Yet) thou I have noticed I don't overheat as often now as I see overheat as something not to do ever... not even for Wildfire, I honestly miss 3.0 MCH, caster MCH was fun... but quess I gota learn the "new/better" MCH even if it feals like crap, is MCH the only class that gets punished for actually reaching 100 on their job gauge? (so far I've seen PLD,MNK,AST,WHM,SAM & RDM don't)

[YitharV2]

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...miss_the_mark/

[Khalithar]

I just want my DoT back... ):

Anything but this. Not having any sort of DoT upkeep to worry about is one of the perks of mch now and I'd rather it never came back.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

SAM: Outdpses MCH. Has a DoT with Lead Shot's old potency (then, the highest DoT), and twice the duration.
BRD: Outdpses MCH. Has 2 DoTs with a literal reset switch (for those that complain of MCH too easy/boring)

. . . Give us back Lead Shot please.

With the community reaching the (correct) consensus that there's no reason to take a MCH over a BRD now. I heavily doubt many new players will play MCH at all.


It starts at level 30 basically having people go back to level it, requires the MSQ to unlock, and is considered inferior to the other option for that slot.

BRD, sorry, Archer starts at 1 if anyone's never touched it. And I want to laugh at that "correct consensus" bit, but you were serious. I suppose it's easy to let metas decide for you. I mean, why should anyone think or choose anything for themselves in this game, right?

Welp, can't wait til 5.0/6.0 and some other ranged is added, then suddenly "No one will ever bring a BRD. . ."

[Greedalox]

Welp, can't wait til 5.0/6.0 and some other ranged is added, then suddenly "No one will ever bring a BRD. . ."

They never said that MCH would be in a terrible place forever- it was a mention of the current patch and it's iteration of MCH- and she's right. I'll be starting my raiding tonight as MCH, but I'm lucky because I raid with friends. If a raid group is given a choice between a MCH and a BRD, they will take a bard and frankly theres more BRD than MCH anyways so it's not even going to be a "their loss" situation.

The only reason to bring a MCH to raid is if you were grandfathered in or somehow every BRD has been scooped up. We flatly just aren't good or equal in comparison under ANY team setups- sure you can say that we can make up for it with faith and tryharding, but what happens when a BRD tryhards? They'll be better than us.

[CosmicKirby]

BRD, sorry, Archer starts at 1 if anyone's never touched it. And I want to laugh at that "correct consensus" bit, but you were serious. I suppose it's easy to let metas decide for you. I mean, why should anyone think or choose anything for themselves in this game, right?

Welp, can't wait til 5.0/6.0 and some other ranged is added, then suddenly "No one will ever bring a BRD. . ."

My point being, you HAVE to go back as a new player to start as a MCH. You can reasonably pick ARC as your first and stick with it all the way through. Most people probably max the first job they pick I imagine.

If you compare a BRD and MCH of equal skill level, there's no reason to bring a MCH over a BRD.

You're the kind of person that doesn't understand tier lists. If ALL OTHER FACTORS are equal, X or Y? The 'meta' or tier lists are what points you to the better of alternatives. Any amount of 'don't let the meta decide!' is the concept going over your head.

Is the best MCH going to be better than a lot of BRDs? Yes. Would that MCH be performing better if they were JUST AS good with any other job or BRD? Also yes. There's no performance argument to be made in MCH's favor.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

My point being, you HAVE to go back as a new player to start as a MCH. You can reasonably pick ARC as your first and stick with it all the way through. Most people probably max the first job they pick I imagine.

If you compare a BRD and MCH of equal skill level, there's no reason to bring a MCH over a BRD.

You're the kind of person that doesn't understand tier lists. If ALL OTHER FACTORS are equal, X or Y? The 'meta' or tier lists are what points you to the better of alternatives. Any amount of 'don't let the meta decide!' is the concept going over your head.

Is the best MCH going to be better than a lot of BRDs? Yes. Would that MCH be performing better if they were JUST AS good with any other job or BRD? Also yes. There's no performance argument to be made in MCH's favor.

Oh I understand tier lists. You assume far too much, and we just don't bloody well know each other like that. At least offer me dinner first.

But if we ARE going to go there, RDM outdamages BRDs, yes? And can help cure in a pinch, AND can raise in a pinch, and Embolden is quite nice. QUITE nice. Damage, support to an even greater degree, and arguably simpler execution. . . Why bring a BRD when you can bring an RDM? Meta said so?

I mean if it's a matter of performance and what brings what to the table, let's skip the freedom of choice and simply look at the top. Forget play what you love, forget actually being good at it when you can just be better at something else. "If you ain't first, you're last", right?

I grasp the meta concept enough to know just how many times it simply didn't matter thanks to that one variable no amount of professional mathematics can account for: the human element. I've done more with less, and I've seen a player completely shatter what the meta says firsthand. Not in this game, no, but overall it was the eye opener: put the right tools in the right hands and they can get the job done. Doesn't matter if they're weathered or top of the line. Might seem hard to grasp sometimes, but once you've seen it, it's hard to unsee. At least if you're really looking.

But don't take my word for it. Go ask the meta or something.

[Greedalox]

But if we ARE going to go there, RDM outdamages BRDs, yes? And can help cure in a pinch, AND can raise in a pinch, and Embolden is quite nice. QUITE nice. Damage, support to an even greater degree, and arguably simpler execution. . . Why bring a BRD when you can bring an RDM? Meta said so?

You're being facetious and comparing apples to sausages. It doesn't help anyones argument to shoehorn the comparison of non alike party roles. Plus yes to what you're saying. We've seen it before- when things get out of hand certain classes can transcend even party roles. That's why we have see plenty of all physical groups and Brd + Mch groups.

Because the meta said so. But our current situation isn't meta. There's ZERO instances and party comps where MCH outdoes BRD. That's not meta, that's a bad class (At the moment). We have no quirks, limelight, minutes or moments for MCH- and pretending like that's okay is harmful. It's okay to still love the class and admit it's NOT in a good spot at all.

Right now in a fight if our mana battery utility wasn't necessary at all and no bards were available you can bet your behind that another class would fill our spot better.

[Velhart]

A dev response to this would be very nice. I at least like to know the intent. If we intentionally have less utility than a BRD, then makes sense we have better DPS, right? Is this the intent? We don't know because SE doesn't know how to communicate this job. I really wonder if any form of play testing was done at all. We do dramatically less DPS than BRD and have no where near the amount of support functions that BRD does. I really just need to know what was going on when they redesigned our job.

[Owl_Hawk]

MCH's problems are the following from what I've played:


too much management...Check to see if Hot Shot buff is up...Check Heat...reapply Barrel after u get to 100 heat and wait 10 seconds...make sure your pet isnt dead or too far to attack (unlike SMN garuda which goes back into range when there is an aoe knockback)...Check ammo, and ontop of that you have the abilities you need to use for burst...and the worst part is..even if you master all of this...your dmg isnt worth the effort nor that high..the support you provide is meh compared to a bard. Out of all the jobs so far i've tried in 4.0 it is the hardest to play yet it yields the least satisfaction when it comes to damage/support..and that's not right! AND INCREASING POTENCIES AND %DMG IS NOT THE SOLUTION AND IS NOT WHY PEOPLE ARE UPSET WITH THE JOB!

My personal solution:

Get rid of Hot Shot and make it a passive...annoying enough at start you have 3 ammo and 1 gets wasted on having to apply Hot Shot. just like u removed NIN venoms i feel this one needs to be removed...maintaining this buff is a headache, its not even shown on your job guage so you need to find buffs and eats up ammo which frustrates rotation...so your eyes are at: your buffs...your ammo..your heat...your ability CDs..mechanics happening...where is pet? GAH!

Make the Pet not a flying one...but more like a spike in the ground that is immune to knockback and yes, even remove its HP totally...not only in raids but even dungeons its annoying when u put the aoe turret in the middle of trash and ofc they will use cone-type abilities and break it/knock it back/etc...so ur dmg is then reduced as a result...so MCH should choose an optimum position for its turret and not have to worry about it unless alot of adds spawn, in which they have to swap it out or use its self destruct attack if they want burst before a phase ends..THEN can choose to reapply the turret...

Make the Barrel always on...reapplying it really is annoying and unnecessary...just give it a 10 second CD and it is activated again..or remove the ability all together and make it a trait..u can keep the barrel look as a glamour ability or something..but its really unnecessary the way it is now, its not like bard applying a totally different buff..like going wanderer> Army> etc. its the same one..so keep it that way unless you want to add different types of barrels to the game, like a close range and longe range one..but that might also just over complicate the job...it already has enough management as i've specified above.

can keep the ammo system, it gives MCH its feel and give it some uniqueness in a way.

If your goal is to simplify jobs, Dev Team, then this is how you simplify this one...managing heat/ammo/burst via Wildfire and Rapid Fire should be the core management..and for those who think this is too easy..go play monk and see how easy yet enjoyable the job has become..i do miss my Fracture and Touch of Death/Mercy Stroke...and I felt that's what made a good player noticeable from a bad...but who cares about that? The point of simplifying jobs was to close the gap between the very strong skilled players and the ehhh not so much players...and this is how you do that with MCH.