Tank Scaling still a massive issue

[aleph_null]

Let's swap this around.

What if the Melee DPS classes could survive 80% of an encounter's tank busters while putting out around 80% the threat of a Tank-stance Tank?

The 20% of tank busters they can't survive would prevent people from bringing no tank to certain fights though. If they can survive every tank buster then they'll just become the new tanks and people won't bring "actual" tanks.

Also don't forget that dps jobs have their own utilities as well, from raid dps buffs to really high personal dps. Tanks and healers just bring different utilities like aggro control, mitigation and healing. If it weren't for fflogs separating standard 2/2/4 composition parses form non standard composition, people would have been using solo tank or solo heal compositions for the speedkill race.

Secondly those are all hyperbolize. No one says tanks need to do no damage at all. No one wants only enmity moves. No one wants to only spam provoke. And defiantly no one wants more HP, if anything our HP is overinflated as it is.

There seems to be this weird idea that you can only do one or the other. Either we have damage, or we have tank mechanics. When in reality its possible to have a reasonable amount of both, but right now our focus is more on damage than tank.

I think the main concern here is that different people have different threshold for "reasonable amount" when it comes to how much dps tanks and healers should bring. Some people want tanks to do 70-80% of dps jobs, some want 40-50%, I don't think we can find a number which everyone would agree on.

If we keep the current str scaling on accs then we'll just feel less rewarded for gearing up compared to other jobs. It feels bad when a fending acc drops when you clear o1s. Those 2 str and 17 vit won't help you as much as 14 main stats for another job, including healers. Dps wise, 2 str would be even smaller than 14 main stats for another job. Survivability and mitigation wise, you'll never require the extra vit you gain from i340 gear to clear the raid since if that's the case no one would be able to clear the raid until their tanks have full i340 right side. 1.7k hp (5x 17 vit = 85 vit) is also really unlikely to allow your healers to heal you for less gcds, it's also really unlikely to allow you stay out of tank stance longer.

My group got a fending ring yesterday, and even though I was the one who got it, I wish it would've dropped dps or healer accessories instead since that'd provide more benefit for my group. I'd rather have the devs reduce our potencies while giving us full amount of dps main stats on both left and right side gear. At least that way it won't feel as terrible as now when I see fending accessories drop.

[Kabooa]

My group got a fending ring yesterday, and even though I was the one who got it, I wish it would've dropped dps or healer accessories instead since that'd provide more benefit for my group. I'd rather have the devs reduce our potencies while giving us full amount of dps main stats on both left and right side gear. At least that way it won't feel as terrible as now when I see fending accessories drop.

By this logic, you don't need the DPS accessories to clear it either, because Omega is done. I mean, sure , it'll clear -faster-, but not much faster than the people who get consistent fending and healing drops.

[Rbstr]

By this logic, you don't need the DPS accessories to clear it either, because Omega is done. I mean, sure , it'll clear -faster-, but not much faster than the people who get consistent fending and healing drops.

If there was only one Omega trial. But there are 3 more, increasingly hard, trials afterward. Chances are the upgrades will help them with V2 ect.
In that way tanking accs. are a detriment since they provide much less overall benefit.

[aleph_null]

By this logic, you don't need the DPS accessories to clear it either, because Omega is done. I mean, sure , it'll clear -faster-, but not much faster than the people who get consistent fending and healing drops.

But dps always benefits the group, since it covers for mistakes (deaths, missed uptime/positionals, failed casts, suboptimal strategies) which happen a lot during prog. Also sometimes you're racing against dps checks or enrage timers. There is a reason why most, if not all progression groups give upgrade items to dps first before tanks/healers.

What? How on earth does passing on a fending accessory now improve the group? It's not like that fending accessory magically turns into a dps or healer accessory...

He was talking about upgrade item, whatever the new thing is called (was gobcoat in alex savage). Unless the tank upgrades belt, the priority for gobcoat should be dps > healer > tank (dps > tank > healer if the tank upgrades belt).

[whiskeybravo]

But dps always benefits the group, since it covers for mistakes (deaths, missed uptime/positionals, failed casts, suboptimal strategies) which happen a lot during prog. Also sometimes you're racing against dps checks or enrage timers. There is a reason why most, if not all progression groups give upgrade items to dps first before tanks/healers.



He was talking about upgrade item, whatever the new thing is called (was gobcoat in alex savage). Unless the tank upgrades belt, the priority for gobcoat should be dps > healer > tank (dps > tank > healer if the tank upgrades belt).

Ah, my bad. Missed that.

[Kabooa]

But dps always benefits the group, since it covers for mistakes (deaths, missed uptime/positionals, failed casts, suboptimal strategies) which happen a lot during prog. Also sometimes you're racing against dps checks or enrage timers. There is a reason why most, if not all progression groups give upgrade items to dps first before tanks/healers.

You can contextualize it all you want, the fact of the matter is that getting 'fending' one week is no different than getting 'slaying' another, because the stuff is clearable with the i320 crafted / Omega story.

In this regard, getting fending over DPS/Healing isn't a huge detriment, especially since it's only on the right side, which is significantly less than leftside upgrades.

I can't speak for the day-1 clearers, but I doubt any of them saw nothing but Slaying drop, and those drops likely did not influence the clear orders at any significant margin.