Tank Scaling still a massive issue

[Tankstuff]

.

Dont be a clown. Of course enmity isnt an issue the dps is. Dont try and tell me tank dps is irrelevant, I just got done pugging O1s and killed it during enrage. I literally did double the damage of my cotank who has the tanking mentality of rediculous tanks like you, and if I had done the same we wouldnt have cleared. Sure in an ideal situation your dps are all perfect players but lets be honest i end up out parsing one or two dps regularly and dps are usually the lowest skill playerbase of mmos, id like to keep my dps and carry potential when I have to

[DacienSanderon]

If tenacity wasn't so bad, no one would be complaining about the loss of dps from strength.
But it is. And so, we must.

Tenacity isn't bad.

[DacienSanderon]

Just accept that you are objectively playing bad.

It's hard to take people like you seriously when you care more about dps than mitigation. If we accept that mitigation doesn't matter then objectively you are a waste of space playing a tank job. You get vastly more dps with a dps job.

It's also interesting how you so selfishly focus on your own dps to the exclusion of all else. Forget extra healer dps gained from not having to heal your squishiness.

[DacienSanderon]

Dont be a clown. Of course enmity isnt an issue the dps is. Dont try and tell me tank dps is irrelevant, I just got done pugging O1s and killed it during enrage. I literally did double the damage of my cotank who has the tanking mentality of rediculous tanks like you, and if I had done the same we wouldnt have cleared. Sure in an ideal situation your dps are all perfect players but lets be honest i end up out parsing one or two dps regularly and dps are usually the lowest skill playerbase of mmos, id like to keep my dps and carry potential when I have to

Congrats on reducing healer dps more than your cotank! I'm going to take a wild guess and say that you still would have cleared just fine even if you did 20% less damage. You didn't double your damage by switching out of tank stance. But hey, keep deluding yourself if that makes you feel better. Just don't waste our time with your drivel.

[Tankstuff]

Congrats on reducing healer dps more than your cotank! I'm going to take a wild guess and say that you still would have cleared just fine even if you did 20% less damage. You didn't double your damage by switching out of tank stance. But hey, keep deluding yourself if that makes you feel better. Just don't waste our time with your drivel.

Well im going to take a wild guess and say that you HAVENT cleared it yet, cause youre one of those players who doesnt clear any relevant content but still wants to chime in with your 2 cents on how tanking is done. Do you even know how healing works in this game? how tanking works? How incoming damage and tank busters work? Did you just make the argument that sitting in tank stance lets healers dps more and that dps makes up for the 1.5k extra dps i pulled over my cotank? No, didnt think so cause youre just a random shitposter who doesnt understand how the game works, and I probably mitigate damage in dps stance better than you anyways lol

[DacienSanderon]

It seems to me that SE had realized that tank/dps balance is off from what they want. They made major adjustments with the release of SB. Now they\\'re trying to get the player base used to their (SE\\'s) idea of balance. At the same time, they aren\\'t able to fully realize the results without letting the players play. I think they either did a decent job taking player feedback (i.e. stance swapping) or their numbers corroborated what player feedback was saying (i.e STR acc). I think once the balance is to their liking, tank and DPS STR will rise at the same level and tank enmity will be a constant.

Lets be honest. They tried, they failed. Tanking is exactly the same as 3.x and the same stupid dps stance debate rages on because it is just as easy as ever to tank that way even with low lvl dps accessories.

[Thoro39]

Any Defense oriented tank that eats the 3rd Cleave in Susano's first phase takes much more damage and requires much more healing than a properly played offense Tank that does not get hit by the 3rd Cleave in the first place by sheer skipping of mechanics through higher DPS output; I sometimes hate healing defensively oriented tanks.
I hate having to heal that 3rd Tankbustercleave, just because they want to play defensively. The offensively oriented tank however, can pool more CDs for the first and second cleave, since he does not have to worry about the third anymore.

This is the case in Susano, this was the case in Niddhogg EX where a Tank would eat 2 extra flarebreaths before addphase if the DPS was not good enough and this was the case through many instances in A10S, A11S and A12S, where I would have to heal additional tankbusters/raidaoes with stubborn defense tanks. And they probably won't be the last fights that feature such cases.

[SunAurel]

Sorry for double post but phone.

Who contributes more? A tank that stays alive in tank stance and keeps aggro and does mediocre damage or a tank that does the same except they forsake aggro generation ( keeping aggro, but with a smaller lead + shirk exists) to maximize their dps and add to the overall damage output.

Also, having done both - Tanking bosses in dps stance is far more engaging. I actually have to look at the aggro list, see if i might have to change and put a halone in.

For Practice or fights that you have difficulties with, 100% tankstance uptime is ok, but if you feel confident then try the other one as well

[Reynhart]

Who contributes more? A tank that stays alive in tank stance and keeps aggro and does mediocre damage or a tank that does the same except they forsake aggro generation ( keeping aggro, but with a smaller lead + shirk exists) to maximize their dps and add to the overall damage output.

Considering that people fear that the damage gap will eventually be so high that you'll have to keep your tank stance for enmity purpose, your second tank would not keep aggro.

So, your question is more "Who contributes more ? A tank that stays alive in tank stance and keep aggro and does mediocre damage or a tank that stays alive but loses aggro to maximize its DPS ?"

[Seku]

I'm not quite too sure why people are defending the fact that SE is killing tank damage. For those saying that tanks keeping hate is the issue and staying in DPS stance 24/7 is the devil, this isn't the case. From my knowledge, hate generation in any group has been a team effort and one of the main reasons why a Ninja is favored in top statics along with TA in raid progression. This would almost be as bad as them going to healers, nerfing the effects of HoT's and shielding so their forced to do manual heals and nerf their damage into the ground over time so they couldn't DPS ever, in any situation.

If anything, the only real way to make tanks stay in tank stance is to increase the out going damage to the tanks or reduce the amount of health that can be healed for by the healers. Without this then you'll always see people dropping their tank stance and going for more DPS. Why?

Because DPS jobs have many hate dump tools and most Duty finder groups more than likely won't have someone pushing their class to it's fullest to actually pull hate away from the tank and it's far easier for a tank to build hate, than for a DPS to out parse the hate generated by a tank

What I don't understand is why SE isn't just lowering the effectiveness of strength for tanks (cutting it back to .8, .7 as someone said before) so that tanks can just scale naturally with little to no maintenance over time.