Tank Scaling still a massive issue

[ADVSS]

Between i270 and i340, STR has increased by :
+0.00294118/ilvl on a weapon
+0.00172425/ilvl on head/hands/feet
+0.00282291/ilvl on body and legs
+0.00129318/ilvl on waist and accessories
For VIT accessories, it's a little different, but checking i320, i330 and i330, STR has increased by :
-0,0000735/ilvl on VIT accessories (So, in fact, the ratio is decreasing)

I used those numbers to imagine what stats would be at ilvl 410, 480, 550, 620 and 690, starting from the i340 values if the stats increase at the same rate. With these calculation, I ended, at ilvl690, at 9572 STR for DRG and 7037 STR for PLD (Without any STR meld), so a ratio of 73%.

Stats will probably change before we reach such a high ilvl (If we ever), but, with this ratio, tanks are still far from being outmatched in enmity.

but how many hp do tanks have at 680?

[BlackironTarkus]

You have to factor in the fact that dps classes are far more efficient with their potency per second, being able to turn their increased attack power into even further increased dps better than tanks can turn attack power into dps. This adds a slight but present multiplier to the speed at which the differences will increase. Again, it's slow burning, but it is a problem.

Additionally as has been stated, having such low scaling can make i320 choices best in slot over i340, maybe even up to i380+ over more efficient secondary stats alone. It's not hard to beat out 2, 4, or even 6 or maybe 8 str depending on what secondaries you are trading.

[Reynhart]

You have to factor in the fact that dps classes are far more efficient with their potency per second, being able to turn their increased attack power into even further increased dps better than tanks can turn attack power into dps.

Yes, but they're not more efficient at turning AP into damage as tanks are at turning AP into enmity. And again, we've only looked at the AP ratio. Keep in mind that weapon damage is the same between all jobs, and has a (comparatively) greater impact than AP.

A little reminder. People justify the scaling problem by using the recent enmity boost patch as proof. Keep in mind that the only enmity that was increased was for low-level skills, for tanks that don't have their tank stance yet. With the tank stance, there isn't any real issue with enmity unless you overneglect your enmity combo.

Additionally as has been stated, having such low scaling can make i320 choices best in slot over i340, maybe even up to i380+ over more efficient secondary stats alone. It's not hard to beat out 2, 4, or even 6 or maybe 8 str depending on what secondaries you are trading.

It has happened before. Remember the i120 CT body compared to the i130 Poetic body and its wonderful Accuracy/Parry secondaries...
All and all, it's a nice touch that ilvl is not the only thing that matters, as long as it's not a blatant overlook like i270 STR vs i320 VIT acc.

[Ariyn]

It's not going to a be a problem now. It won't be a problem in 4.1, or 4.2, or even 4.3 or 4.4. Maybe it won't even be a problem when 5.0 launches. But if SE's policy on how how tanks scale compared to the scaling of every other class doesn't change, we will run into the "I'm in Grit/ShO/Defiance, and spamming Aggro, and I'm losing hate!" issue.

You are completely contradicting your entire points. If none of this is an issue until the next expac then it's a non issue all around. Everything is changed and reworked each expac. So if the current trend doesn't give any problems till 5.0 or later, then we have nothing to worry about. Your job as tank is to hold hate and reduce incoming damage. Not to do DPS. If they put in some massive dps check that requires tank and healer dps to beat then we can bitch but they've already said they have no intention of doing that after the last mistake they made doing so.

[Renkei]

O3S? would be impossible if we didnt recieve str bonus on our gear healers wpuld then be required to do 1k each this fight has a steep dps check.

[BlackironTarkus]

Dps i320 to i340 upgrade is +208 main stat, roughly a 9.0% increase in damage (not factoring secondaries)
Tank i320 to i340 upgrade is +141 STR, roughly a 7.4% increase in damage (not factoring secondaries)

The gap is there, but it's not so massive that a major correction is going to be needed before the next expansion.

You are correct, but with how long se takes to change things I'd like to raise the issue now before it becomes a problem. Even if slight, every set of gear we get like this will see our damage go up slightly but overall contribution to the raid go down slightly. Over enough time it'll feel pretty bad.

[Ragnarokl]

SE seems to take every chance they get to lower tank damage. I am not surprised by anything at this point.

[Pyitoechito]

Maybe VIT or the new Tenacity substat could be made to have a minor effect on enmity gain to offset the "tank scaling" issue?

[DacienSanderon]

This is fine, and with substats the difference is made up from Alexandrian slaying.

The big big problem is this:

340 fending seems to have +42 str. 20 item levels and only a gain of 2.

The issue I raised before where eventually with enough time if nothing is changed we could have dps with 1k, 2k, 3k higher attack power than a tank and it will require constant enmity patching has been delayed by 2 patches tops.

We need to gain the same gain that dps get, just on a lower base value.

If dps accs gain 14 str on a 20 ilvl jump, tank accs need to gain 14 too. By handing dps +14 and tanks +2 for this higher ilvl, eventually you will be back to square one.

This is simply not true if tanks have % enmity modifiers. Dps could have 10x the ap gain as long as tanks have 10x enmity modifier.

[StouterTaru]

This is simply not true if tanks have % enmity modifiers. Dps could have 10x the ap gain as long as tanks have 10x enmity modifier.

That's not how math works.