Tank Scaling still a massive issue

[Alphras]

Even if tank accessories had all str they would still be a worse drop for raid dps than getting a dps accessory drop. The whole argument that the raid is collectively disappointed at a fending drop is a strawman argument as they'll be disappointed no matter what stats are on a tank drop. It's a tank drop.

I don't really get where you see a straw man there, but your argument just shows that Square didn't address any of the problems and there are still major issues with tank scalling. And there is a difference between worse and borderline useless.

i340 Fending accessories are dangerously close to "not even an upgrade," especially when considering i320 crafted accessories.

Crafted accessories, if penta melded, are already better than ilvl 340 afaik and the margin should be quite big with the introduction of Direct Hit.



Edit: Well they did address the ilvl 270 STR accessory problem.

[Shinkyo]

Snip

How is that any different from the current situation?
STR and VIT now being completely independent, you can pretty consider STR as our primary and VIT as a secondary.
Having VIT on our gear in no way affect how much STR we get, so their is no conflict between the 2.
The only thing limiting factor is how much AP SE wants Tanks to have for a particular content tier and in relation to DPS AP.
All people are complaining about is tanks doing less dps than DPS class and feeling their don\\'t have enough weight in the total raid DPS. It\\'s valid but is only a perception issue. It\\'s doesn\\'t affect gameplay in anyways.

[Argyle_Darkheart]

All people are complaining about is tanks doing less dps than DPS class and feeling their don\\'t have enough weight in the total raid DPS. It\\'s valid but is only a perception issue. It\\'s doesn\\'t affect gameplay in anyways.

I can't speak for everyone (unlike you, apparently), but my issue is that tank gear progression, with regards to Fending accessories, is highly unsatisfying. I would like Fending accessories to have as much impact on tanks as the respective counterparts do on other jobs; I really don't think that's asking too much.

[whiskeybravo]

I can't speak for everyone (unlike you, apparently), but my issue is that tank gear progression, with regards to Fending accessories, is highly unsatisfying. I would like Fending accessories to have as much impact on tanks as the respective counterparts do on other jobs; I really don't think that's asking too much.

That's really kind of a silly argument. First off, there's been hardly any gear progression at all. We know SE limiting the addition of str was due to balancing with current content, just enough so people wouldn't use 270 accessories. They didn't even have to do that, so it just seems a bit early to claim there is a problem with gear progression - we are at the first step! Lol. We have no idea what the progression will look like beyond 340.

Secondly, sure, +7 per 10 ilvl is better than +1 per 10 ilvl. But let's not act like 1 accessory provides a noticeable impact on any other job. Especially if you consider the loss of substats sometimes, it's not always an "upgrade" for dps. Like if you are swapping 100 crit for 100 skill speed, it might not be beneficial to the rotation until you can drop the skill speed on another piece of gear, etc. Or vice versa, if you need a set amount of skill speed for your rotation and get a new accessory with crit and det, yea it's an upgrade but you can't use it until you get something to replace the skill speed. Or similarly when the tome gear accessory is more powerful than the raid drop, it'd still be disappointing to see when it could've been a better tank or healer drop. I certainly ran into situations like that raiding on drg through hw (though how prevalent this is in SB I do not know)

Tank accessories have more meaning now than they had last week, that's the important part. SE can now balance tank dps and HP seperately, this is important as well. We'll just have to see how they handle it moving forward, there's no real reason for them to make any further adjustments at this time.

[Felorr]

Tank accessories have more meaning now than they had last week, that's the important part. SE can now balance tank dps and HP seperately, this is important as well. We'll just have to see how they handle it moving forward, there's no real reason for them to make any further adjustments at this time.

This statement is very important to understand. Yes the fending accessories are only gaining 2 strength for those 20 item levels, but I don't expect it to scale linearly every 20 item levels. Like whiskeybravo said, separating our damage and HP into two stats allows them to balance them that much easier. Lets say when they release the next savage tier, the strength difference might be more than it is now. SE is easily going to be able to put whatever strength value on those fending accessories they need to in order to scale the tanks correctly.

TLDR dont expect the strength scaling on accessories to be linear throughout the entire xpac.

[Falar]

Instead of arbitrary values though I don't know why they just didn't go with 50% of the VIT.

[whiskeybravo]

Instead of arbitrary values though I don't know why they just didn't go with 50% of the VIT.

It can't be an arbitrary assignment. If it was, calling for 50% of vit is equally as arbitrary.

[Argyle_Darkheart]

We know SE limiting the addition of str was due to balancing with current content, just enough so people wouldn't use 270 accessories.

Do we know that? I suspect as much, but it's still cause for concern, in my opinion. Let's not forget that Fending accessories for the longest time had no Attack Power. It's not like this is a new issue; rather, we've regressed. Incidentally, how do you feel about the idea of i320 crafted accessories being superior to i340 raid accessories?

We have no idea what the progression will look like beyond 340.

Fair enough, but I would like to voice my concern while I wait and see.

But let's not act like 1 accessory provides a noticeable impact on any other job.

Never said it was noticeable (but it is); I said I would like them to have the same impact.

[whiskeybravo]

Do we know that? I suspect as much, but it's still cause for concern, in my opinion. Let's not forget that Fending accessories for the longest time had no Attack Power. It's not like this is a new issue; rather, we've regressed. Incidentally, how do you feel about the idea of i320 crafted accessories being superior to i340 raid accessories?

They haven't explicitly confirmed it, no. But it's about as unofficially confirmed as possible. They did state they were adding a "minimal" amount of str, and the theorycrafters have confirmed they are pretty much equal to the 270s including substat weights, so, we pretty much know

In general I do think it's good for crafters to have a place in the end game raiding scene. As for crafted vs raid drops, they are only slightly better since you can overmeld. If people want to assume that cost for the relatively minor impact of secondaries, more power to them. It certainly doesn't seem as bad as HW where tanks were spending millions on crafted slaying, at least it's crafted fending this time lol. All in all, it doesn't look like they will be necessary to clear this raid tier, so as long as nobody is forced into buying them it's just personal preference.

[aleph_null]

Pretty sure they have rebalanced the encounter enrage timer and boss hp to take into account the 300+ str tanks gain compared to pre 4.05. You can surely do o3s with tanks doing 20% less dps than now, my group cleared o3s with 9 deaths and 10s-ish time until enrage, but I doubt my group could've gotten past exdeath with 20% less tank dps, and that's with 2-2.5k combined healer dps. The dps requirement in the first part of o4s is much tighter than o3s.